Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting VLDS or NBT love um or hate um

Yes, January doe-only season.

Unfortunately, many early-shedding bucks end up getting shot during that rifle season.

As an Iowa Outfitter, we would prefer those bucks all make it to next fall.

Werner, you do realize you've come full circle on this, right?

If Jack didn't make a mistake, then what's your beef with the TV show?

By the numbers, once more:

1) What, no comment on reading comprehension? Good plan though, when you run out of things to say, toss off some "irrationals" and "emotionals."

Which is ironic when you think about what started this particular discussion--a guy bitching about something he's never seen.

2) Yes, I did say that.

3) Volatile? How does one become "volatile" on a keyboard? See # 1 above. Then show me where I've "defended" the show.

There are two points I've made with respect to the show: first, that no one should blame a TV show for an individual's actions, and second, that I'm sure the show didn't advocate using a rig such as your friend Jack acquired for 800-yard shots at animals. I can say both with relative certainty, without having seen the show.

Of course, feel free to correct me on either point. I'll be waiting anxiously.

4) Ah, so now we're getting somewhere. Was Jack mistaken about long-range hunting being "much easier than it really is?"

5) I'm not sure. From what I've heard, it's the system, not a single component.

But here's a news flash for you--if you're really interested in the answer, there's an easy way to get it. Watch the show and see for yourself.

Or, just keep bitching about it.

This coming from a guy who's called me "emotional," irrational," and "volatile."

Oh, and questioned my reading comprehension a few times.

If you'll read my previous posts, you could eventually conclude that I was merely asking for opinions on a show that I had never watched.

Also, you'll see my name in the upper left hand corner. This was purposely done to prevent the temptation of 'name-calling' under the cloak of anonymity.

If you think I was guilty of name-calling, please accept my apology.

First, it's pretty clear you were doing more than just asking a question, and it's pretty clear you have a negative opinion of "the show." I believe you said you were "frustrated" with the show. My point remains, you should be frustrated with your pal Jack, not a TV show you've never seen.

Here's another analogy for you--I've seen Travis Pastrana do back flips off a jump on a dirt bike many times on TV. He makes it look easy. Without knowing any of the details on how he pulls it off, I can safely assume his equipment is not off-the-shelf but modified for his purposes, top-notch, and maintained to high standards. And he's been practicing his stunts for years.

So why would I assume I can go to the dirt-bike store, buy a stock bike and do the same thing as Travis? If I try that, would it be Travis' fault? I don't think so.

Second, "if you think" you owe me an apology, by all means offer one.

Third, did you really say that cup and core bullets are no good for big game, in your opinion?

smokepole-
Can you please read my post? I asked if the Berger was still a cup and core, indicating I have no intention of trying one on big game.

Can I say that any clearer? I have actually shot Berger bullets, and I have taken big game with other cup and core bullet designs in the past.

This twisted word game is getting rather tiresome.

I am a proud father of 5 sons. All 5 have had the fortunate opportunity to fill western non-resident tags within months of their 12th birthday.

I was responsible for setting up rifles and developing loads for these hunts. I was also responsible for making sure range/shooting time was a top priority before these hunts ever took place.

Trust me, too much time was spent on cartridge selection and load development. While these first hunts were always 1x1 guided hunts with dad, it still alway boiled down to them pulling the trigger.

I loaded these rounds keeping in mind that things may not go exactly right. I was there to recommend waiting for a better shot or possibly calm down some nerves, but they still pulled the trigger.

Bullet selection was very important. I wanted a bullet that would give the best chance to work when things weren't exactly perfect. I was very fortunate in that things usually worked out perfectly.

I can honestly say a couple of the mild-mannered cartridges chosen for the youngsters have been real eye-openers thru over-acheivement. A Model 7 in 260 comes to mind. (Sorry, a bit off topic in the elk forum).

My opinions and values definitely affected their hunts. If I recommend something other than their initial thoughts, I do not see them as idiots making mental mistakes. I see them as inexperienced.

My definition of 'mistake' may differ from others.

Yes, you can say it more clearly. When you say you have no intention of "trying one on big game," is it the Berger you're referring to, or "a cup and core" in general?

And you're right, the twisted word game is tiresome. I like to discuss these kinds of things with people who outline their position and then support it with facts rather than people who change their tune mid-stream using waffling language such as this:

The VLDs have worked well for me. Just this last season I took both my mule deer and elk with them, no problems what so ever.

You sir.... are full of schiit. Did you miss all of the above telling us that Bergers will bounce off shoulders and how cup and core is just way yucky for shooting at elk.

How did we ever kill elk twenty years ago before the mighty TSX was invented?

We ducked every time we shot in case the bullet bounced back and hit us in the eye.

Just joking because I killed elk over 20 years ago with the XBT and it worked. Just not as well as the VLDs are working now.

The new LRX might address some of the issues with the design for those that like the concept but want a bullet that will work better at distance.

Time will tell.

I've not tried the Ballistic tips or the VLD on big game. My friend has seen the ballistic tip used on Moose and I wasn't impressed with the results or the penetration. Although the animal was recovered. I won't use them on large game. Also my BIL shot a black bear in the shoulder with an NBT in 7mm Mag and he lost it. Personal experience will always shape what a person will or won't use, it doesn't matter how many internet stories there are.

It sounds like second-hand stories is all you've got right now...

Except for the fact that I saw the Moose right after it was shot and I was there for my BIL's black bear.

How'd the bullet perform on the bear?

Oh okay It sounded like you were just hearing stories, which wouldn't make those experiences very differenct from those you read about on these forums...

Hay now Jordan. Stories from the internet are always a good source.

Just wait tell I start SPAMing videos.

I don't know exactly. Another crew of hunters shot the bear a half hour later. They head shot it and my BIL was able to verify that his shot did indeed hit the shoulder.

Hey! Don't bad-mouth video spamming. It increases brand visibility...

Some "sources" on the internet are better than others, and it's pretty easy to tell the two apart with about 1 second of reading and a double-digit IQ...