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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
Still amazed that you can convince "sheep hunters" and "elk hunters" for that matter, that a 10lb gun is where it is at.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
Still amazed that you can convince "sheep hunters" and "elk hunters" for that matter, that a 10lb gun is where it is at. It is so easy when you are dealing with serious hunters. When big bucks are on the line these guys have tried the lightweight route and found it wanting. Proven performance trumps silly notions of featherweights. Even Lil Fish wants weight when the chips are down. He just plays you boys for his own amusement.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
Just because someone pays for a hunt, doesn't make them a "serious hunter."
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
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Buying a 100k+ governor�s tag and hiring a bus load of guides to hunt a farm from a truck may be serious to some. To others they're just rich dorks blowing grandpa's trust money. To each their own.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,666 Likes: 34 |
Still amazed that you can convince "sheep hunters" and "elk hunters" for that matter, that a 10lb gun is where it is at. It is so easy when you are dealing with serious hunters. When big bucks are on the line these guys have tried the lightweight route and found it wanting. Proven performance trumps silly notions of featherweights. Even Lil Fish wants weight when the chips are down. He just plays you boys for his own amusement. Please feel free to denote the correlation of rifle weight,to Net Score...as applied to B&C....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
Just because someone pays for a hunt, doesn't make them a "serious hunter." No it sure doesn't. When they drop 60K it does tend to make them take the hunt seriously. This is why we have been successful at the big sheep show. Guys simply want good stuff and some of them seem to think we might be able to make a rifle that will perform when the chips are down. 
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
Buying a 100k+ governor�s tag and hiring a bus load of guides to hunt a farm from a truck may be serious to some. To others they're just rich dorks blowing grandpa's trust money. To each their own. Nothin against you here but go back and read the envy in that post. I know it is hard to believe but some guys have actually earned their own money and choose to spend it hunting. Pretty cool in my book.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,524 Likes: 16
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,524 Likes: 16 |
John,
Were you just at the big sheep show? Had a buddy down there who donated an alaskan fishing trip to the auction.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
Still amazed that you can convince "sheep hunters" and "elk hunters" for that matter, that a 10lb gun is where it is at. It is so easy when you are dealing with serious hunters. When big bucks are on the line these guys have tried the lightweight route and found it wanting. Proven performance trumps silly notions of featherweights. Even Lil Fish wants weight when the chips are down. He just plays you boys for his own amusement. Please feel free to denote the correlation of rifle weight,to Net Score...as applied to B&C.................... How about I quote you before you chickened out to the shoot in MT. This is what you wanted to bring and it is a 12 pounder.
I'm thinking S/S 700 s/a 308Winny,wearing a Mike Rock #6 contoured 23 inch 1-11.25 5R spout,chambered M852. A5 stocked,dab lug bedded,Badger M4 bottom,Badger 20MOA Rail,Badger Standards and a Mk4 M1 10x Duplex.
Reckon I prolly dote on 155 Scenars,but it don't hardly give a schitt whatcha throw down it's throat.
But it ain't like someone else is gonna do sumptin' to a rifle,that I haven't.....................
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
John,
Were you just at the big sheep show? Had a buddy down there who donated an alaskan fishing trip to the auction. Calvin, The real big sheep show is in Vegas on the 23rd (OVIS Grand Slam). I did do the Reno version last year but that was a bust. I have been doing the Long Range seminars at the Grand Slam Club show in Vegas for 3 years now. http://www.wildsheep.org/convention/2011/seminars.htmlThe FNAWS sheep show in Reno was by far and away the worst show I have ever done concerning attendance and from my stand point sales. I had 2 guys buy scopes on the last day and I almost told them to go to the website and order so i could actually say the show was a complete bust. We normally do quite a bit of buisness at all the shows we do (Dalllas SCI , SCI, SFW/Mule Deer, NRA, ISE, Harrisburg, RMEF) but man that was a wreck. I hope your buddy did well and the show works for anyone who was there but in my view FNAWS did not need to split from SFW and start a new show.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
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Buying a 100k+ governor�s tag and hiring a bus load of guides to hunt a farm from a truck may be serious to some. To others they're just rich dorks blowing grandpa's trust money. To each their own. Nothin against you here but go back and read the envy in that post. I know it is hard to believe but some guys have actually earned their own money and choose to spend it hunting. Pretty cool in my book. Agreed..Any man that earns his money honestly is a good man. May he spend it any way he wishes. If I want to pass down what is mine, it should be up to me and no one else. Hunted the same hill as a guy with a 12 man guide crew this past season. He was running 10 spotters. Luckiely for him he paided for guides and I didn't draw the 14 pref pt tag. Could have killed his bull easy within 150 yards. Watched him finally make it happen after a spotter from over a mile away finally figured out what I was looking at and walk him and his walking guide in. There was talk amongst them (hunter and guides) about only packing out the head and hide. I heard it over the radio. Started with something like, can't we get the quads in there. I packed out my spike elk quarters from a few canyons further down the trail two days later.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
Buying a 100k+ governor�s tag and hiring a bus load of guides to hunt a farm from a truck may be serious to some. To others they're just rich dorks blowing grandpa's trust money. To each their own. Nothin against you here but go back and read the envy in that post. I know it is hard to believe but some guys have actually earned their own money and choose to spend it hunting. Pretty cool in my book. Agreed..Any man that earns his money honestly is a good man. May he spend it any way he wishes. If I want to pass down what is mine, it should be up to me and no one else. Hunted the same hill as a guy with a 12 man guide crew this past season. He was running 10 spotters. Luckiely for him he paided for guides and I didn't draw the 14 pref pt tag. Could have killed his bull easy within 150 yards. Watched him finally make it happen after a spotter from over a mile away finally figured out what I was looking at and walk him and his walking guide in. There was talk amongst them (hunter and guides) about only packing out the head and hide. I heard it over the radio. Started with something like, can't we get the quads in there. I packed out my spike elk quarters from a few canyons further down the trail two days later. +1 The whole "Big Gang, Found the bull before the hunter shows up" thing is not for everyone. I am not here to judge but I doubt many are game for round 2. Sounds fun to some but it might not be as cool after the fact.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,666 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,666 Likes: 34 |
Still amazed that you can convince "sheep hunters" and "elk hunters" for that matter, that a 10lb gun is where it is at. It is so easy when you are dealing with serious hunters. When big bucks are on the line these guys have tried the lightweight route and found it wanting. Proven performance trumps silly notions of featherweights. Even Lil Fish wants weight when the chips are down. He just plays you boys for his own amusement. Please feel free to denote the correlation of rifle weight,to Net Score...as applied to B&C.................... How about I quote you before you chickened out to the shoot in MT. This is what you wanted to bring and it is a 12 pounder.
I'm thinking S/S 700 s/a 308Winny,wearing a Mike Rock #6 contoured 23 inch 1-11.25 5R spout,chambered M852. A5 stocked,dab lug bedded,Badger M4 bottom,Badger 20MOA Rail,Badger Standards and a Mk4 M1 10x Duplex.
Reckon I prolly dote on 155 Scenars,but it don't hardly give a schitt whatcha throw down it's throat.
But it ain't like someone else is gonna do sumptin' to a rifle,that I haven't.....................
That was the rifle I offered to send to Mackay for R&D,figuring it a like weight to the schit you are yacking about and one which would be easily fed over the counter. Nuttin' more,nuttin' less...though I've probably another rifle or two,besides it. 'Course then numb nuts was stumped with a BDC that read yards,instead of the MOA he stated...so I saved shipping on another goatphuck. Though as noted,I weren't none too concerned about it being beat upon,as that's what I've got 'em for...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,122 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,122 Likes: 3 |
IMO a good long range setup goes under the idea of stacking pennies, a little here and a little there adds up to a lot. if your happy with an MOA rifle and shooting to 4-500 yards a light rifle will do it. beyond that little things really start to matter.
its the same reason why the military doesn't send out snipers with a 6# kimber.
I also own light rifles and given the right hunt and conditions they are a better choice. but given the typical western style hunting utah, idaho, wyoming, etc I like a bit heavier rifle. I don't think anyone is saying hunting mountain goats or sheep is best with a 10# gun.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,666 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,666 Likes: 34 |
I've spouts in sub #1 to straight 1.350".
Bore interiors,matter far more than their exteriors.
I remain all ears to what a given contour's "max effective range" is,as well as a given weight system's "max effective range".
Tough to get giddy about 175SMK's in any platform though....................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,353 |
its the same reason why the military doesn't send out snipers with a 6# kimber.
High volume and off hand shooting have as much to do with barrel wieght as anything. If all snipers ever did was one shot one kill like in the movies a kimber would be a hell of a lot easier to work with.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,094
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,094 |
Who is the maker of the barrels used? The best in the world.  Why use anything else????  Good to see another Brux fan!
"Any one who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him, better take a closer look at the American Indian."
- Henry Ford
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,707
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,707 |
Who is the maker of the barrels used? The best in the world. Why use anything else???? Good to see another Brux fan! I'm thinking only the first letter (B) is correct.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949 |
I love my Brux and they do very well. I will say again that it really does not matter whos name is on the tube within reason. I dont care if Burns is running Brux, Pacnor, Rock, Bartlein etc, a good tube is a good tube.
Regarding weight I have found the Montana was a little to light. I had two, a .308 and a .260. I found that in field positions I was not as consistent with them as I was with heavier rifles. It was not the stock fit, it is probably the single best stock I have ever handled for matching my body. For me I found follow through is far more critical with the fly weights. I applaud Stick and others who do well with them, they just were not for me. Sticking a heavier tube on a Model 7 made a big difference for me and my Tikka T3 lites have the best balance for me. On a recent build I went to far the other way, put a 26" heavy palma contour on a rifle built for steel matches and it was a bit to much, feels slow on transitions from target to target when shooting anything other than prone. I shot a twin to my rifle with a light palma contour and the difference was very apparent.
I can understand Burns reluctance to mention parts but did I miss it where an accuracy standard was specified?
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130 |
Looking forward to your results with the new LRX bullets!
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