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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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General comments about wind meters vs reading the leaves/mirage etc....
I shot competitively and if it were not for our sport requiring offhand shooting, at which I more or less suck at, I was proficient enough to be a fairly well ranked competitor, offhand holding me back from being, IMHO, a candidate for a civilian national champion at some point.
Anyway, the wind meters will beat the guesses ALL day long. Mirage is worthless past about 15mph for all practical purposes. NOW I never ran strictly with a wind speed meter because mirage does affect the windage call MORE than just what wind is worth... its an optical illusion, so mirage or the lack of it is an EXTRA input into the aiming formulation.
Now if you were just going to shoot to say 500-600 and need to hit a target anywhere, the above is probably not worth my time of typing, but if you are aiming small, and even small at 600, then you need to consider all the factors it takes to stay inside an MOA or less group at distance.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Well said, I shot 1000 YD BR for a number of years. I concur with you. The thing about target shooting is that we got to shoot sighter so SEE if the wind was what we thought - we only had to try and match the conditions as we went along. With hunting, it is very difficult to see where your bullet hits sometimes and no guarantee that the deer will stand around for a 2nd poke!
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Anyway, the wind meters will beat the guesses ALL day long. Mirage is worthless past about 15mph for all practical purposes. NOW I never ran strictly with a wind speed meter because mirage does affect the windage call MORE than just what wind is worth... its an optical illusion, so mirage or the lack of it is an EXTRA input into the aiming formulation.
Good stuff, IME, under all but the best of conditions for viewing mirage, it disappears at about 15mph, especially with hand held portable optics. For any paratroopers out there, this is the origin of the 13 "naut" no-jump rule. The Leupy B&C reticle has built in dope for 10mph winds, this should be a clue to most of us when it is time to pass on the shot.
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Campfire Regular
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Rost,
Jackin you up what else. Nice comment. Also, I am still not sure what the definition of LR is. Maybe someone as smooth and as obviously intelligent as you are would be so kind as to define it for me.
How about this (if a guy is shooting a 22 Magnum) 200 yards is Long Range. Is then 400 yards long range shooting a .223 or a .243? Why don't you tell us and hold the obsenities.
Dave
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I am very big on my Ruger #1 in .270WBY for long range. Lots of others out there. Good luck.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well said, I shot 1000 YD BR for a number of years. I concur with you. The thing about target shooting is that we got to shoot sighter so SEE if the wind was what we thought - we only had to try and match the conditions as we went along. With hunting, it is very difficult to see where your bullet hits sometimes and no guarantee that the deer will stand around for a 2nd poke! You shot BR... I shot service rifle. NO sighters at any yard line in CMP matches.... and once I learned what a crutch sighters were, I never used them ever again if allowed by rules not to. You learn a LOT more that way. When the first shot is do or die. And that wasn't a slam at BR either. Just commenting that my particular chosen favorite sport was no sighters. Of course our ten ring was a "bit".... larger than yours ever was.
Last edited by rost495; 03/07/11.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Rost,
Jackin you up what else. Nice comment. Also, I am still not sure what the definition of LR is. Maybe someone as smooth and as obviously intelligent as you are would be so kind as to define it for me.
How about this (if a guy is shooting a 22 Magnum) 200 yards is Long Range. Is then 400 yards long range shooting a .223 or a .243? Why don't you tell us and hold the obsenities.
Dave
So if I was shooting a 22 mag at 200 you'd come in and say, nope I like to stalk up to 50 for the 22 mag..... If I came across strong... well I meant it actually. I get tired of those coming here and telling others what they can and can't do. I've said it before and will again, some days 200 could be the long side, other days 1000 is gravy. If you have the intelligence, you'll know when and when not. There is no fixed line, so maybe you and I are on the same page, but this LR forum gets bashed enough by folks preaching what others shoudl do instead of a long shot. Truth be told there was a time in my life that if you didn't hunt with archery gear you were just not talented enough and used a rifle as a crutch... but I got past all that. Some hunt for differeing reasons. If you don't like long shots cool, don't come here and preach though. Be like a Republican ragging on a democratic forum
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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100 yards is long range for me with my compound bow, 30 yards long range with my long bow or recurve, Long range for rifle on paper for me would be anything out past 600 yards and as far as 1000 yards. Long range for hunting would be 600 to 800 yards with the right shot presentation.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Guys this has been a remarkably civil thread lets try to keep it that way. I dont think anybody was peeing on the idea of long range, I think everyone here is just trying to be aware of their limitations. I have plenty of respect for a man that knows his limitations and holds himself to those limitations in the field regardless of how big the buck or bull is. I dont know why there would ever be an issue with someone not being sure of their shot and working closer and I sure dont see that as being anti-long range.
I was very pleased this weekend at a match to put a 500yard cold bore shot only 1 1/2" from dead center and the next three rounds went into a tad under 3". Jumping to the 600 the wind started swirling all over the place and the pretty 3" group jumped to 11 inches of horizontal spread. As sure as I was at 500 I knew I would have not tried the 600yard shot in the field at an animal. Moving on to the 800 yard stage the wind started to settle down and I put three rounds into 3.75" about 2" off of dead center. Again based on conditions I would have taken that shot in the field. Ten minutes later the wind was all over the place again and I would have passed.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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My personal best long range shot was with a .410 on a Dove 60 yards give or take 5 yards crossing right to left. I was maybe 17 hunting with a friend. He said his shotgun wouldn't hit anything. So I said well let me give it a try. I thought when the dove went down it had a heart attack. LOL then we looked it over sure enough two pellets one in the breast and one in the neck. LUCKIEST SHOT I EVER MADE!
Last edited by MontanaCreekHunter; 03/08/11.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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I know as soon as I win the 300 million dollar lottery I plan on buying many guns. Me personally, my own opinions. I would own at least 25 of Kirby's guns, 24 gunwerks guns, 25 Black diamond rifles and am sure there are some other custom guns that I would include. I would not own any weatherby's or christiansen arms guns, cooper arms. Once can never have too many guns. I don't know if I ever heard a reason for the shake up at best of the west???? I thought they had a pretty good thing going before the shake up. As much as I would like to say I am a long range hunter, my furthest shot at a deer was 200 yards and I would like to think if a shot out to 800 ever presented itself I would feel confident enough in my skills to even consider the shot. I use to know a guy who would regularly take 75 yards shots at elk with his bow and arrow, he wounded alot of animals, only ever hunted with him once as I didn't like that type of hunting and was not proud to even say I knew him. I am sure through out the years there have been more animals killed with the good old 30-30 within 100 yards.
Cocked,Locked and Ready to Rock
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90% of the folks that shoot long range....aren't qualified to do so!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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I will certainly agree with that statement~!!!
Years ago I had an older friend that was in fact a Master Machinist and who was also a gunsmith. I did a little work for him now and then and he took my .300 Win mag in a Belgium Browning and worked on it so I had a very accurate rifle.
Now in those days I only shot out to 500 yards, which by todays standards is nothing to get excited about I guess. However, this rifle shooting 190 grn. Sierra BT bullets would shoot under 1/2 inch at 100 yards.
I watch this long range shooting on the Outdoor Channel and some of those shows make it look like eating cake to hit an animal at 700 or 800 yards. Just use the range finder get the yardage, turn the turret to that yardage and squeeze the trigger.........BANG FLOP~!!! It is just not that easy folks, there is a lot more to learn and know about doping wind and hitting targets that far down range.
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Hunting shows are very misleading. Many factors come into play that can't just be edited out.We all also don't have access to as exclusive of hunting locations as TV Hunters.... I don't hardly even bother with hunting shows anymore.
1 and done
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Campfire Ranger
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Now in those days I only shot out to 500 yards, which by todays standards is nothing to get excited about I guess. I'd get excited about it! I can't imagine me being able to shoot a big game animal at that kinda distance. Damn. It might as well be 1500 yards for me. It amazes me that guys can shoot deer sized game at the distances that you guys talk about. I shot a blackbuck at 250 yards once, and that was about all I wanted.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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JWP,
Not to be a smart arse or disrespectful to anyone that practices and can manage long range shots and who can do so with consistency but there is no question that there are those among us that as a previous poster said think because they just spent $7000 on a rifle and optics they can kill game at long range.
The TV shows that show those long range kills I don't even watch anymore however it appears said shows and all of the rest of the long range hype have done in some cases exactly what others have spoken about.
Bad hits, wounded animals, wrong animals, complete misses and endless searches for animals that are never found. Nothing wrong with a guy that is capable and can make the shots but my guess is they are in the minority.
Get in "sheep shape", practice,utilize the right equipment, know the area being hunted, and know the hunted and his habits. I had a real nice Muley @ 794 yards in a 30mph 9:00 wind. He was bedded but there was no way that shot was even considered.
4 hours later @ 350 yards give or take a few yards I harvested him. I wonder how many guys shooting a 7MM RM w/168 Bergers and a Huskamaw scope would have tried the 794 yard poke?
Being able and confident in the ability to take a long shot if necesary is good but IMHO an ability employed when it is the only option. Again I am not knocking those that choose to hunt LR that are capable and have prepared properly and can make the shot if that is how they choose to harvest animals. Those that haven't prepared properly need to leave the LR rig in the safe, quit eating chocolate chip cookies, get on their bicycles and get in shape and get closer IMHO.
Dave
We have a WINNER. Someone that gets it. I agree......
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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JWP,
Not to be a smart arse or disrespectful to anyone that practices and can manage long range shots and who can do so with consistency but there is no question that there are those among us that as a previous poster said think because they just spent $7000 on a rifle and optics they can kill game at long range.
The TV shows that show those long range kills I don't even watch anymore however it appears said shows and all of the rest of the long range hype have done in some cases exactly what others have spoken about.
Bad hits, wounded animals, wrong animals, complete misses and endless searches for animals that are never found. Nothing wrong with a guy that is capable and can make the shots but my guess is they are in the minority.
Get in "sheep shape", practice,utilize the right equipment, know the area being hunted, and know the hunted and his habits. I had a real nice Muley @ 794 yards in a 30mph 9:00 wind. He was bedded but there was no way that shot was even considered.
4 hours later @ 350 yards give or take a few yards I harvested him. I wonder how many guys shooting a 7MM RM w/168 Bergers and a Huskamaw scope would have tried the 794 yard poke?
Being able and confident in the ability to take a long shot if necesary is good but IMHO an ability employed when it is the only option. Again I am not knocking those that choose to hunt LR that are capable and have prepared properly and can make the shot if that is how they choose to harvest animals. Those that haven't prepared properly need to leave the LR rig in the safe, quit eating chocolate chip cookies, get on their bicycles and get in shape and get closer IMHO.
Dave
You hit the nail on the head!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well practiced long range shooters would do the same. YOu just dont shoot when its not controllable by you, regardless if its 100 yards or 1000 yards. Pretty simple.
But while capabilities vary from shooter to shooter, IMHO those that practice enough, will not be buying a pre made rifle or ammo, and will know when and when not to shoot and not buy into gimmicky stuff...
350 yards could be a negative on a shot in some conditions pretty easy too.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Regular
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Well practiced long range shooters would do the same. YOu just dont shoot when its not controllable by you, regardless if its 100 yards or 1000 yards. Pretty simple.
Agreed, I've shot in enough conditions, at enough ranges, to know when I can't make a shot...and I know you know your own limitations.
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I learned the hard way this deer season. I switched rifles and setups. With my 760 308, I was good out to 500 yards. With my Savage 7mag, I was good out to 650. I practiced alot with these two rigs and was confident in them.
This year I drew a good tag so I bought a new rifle. I mounted my scope, found a bullet that shot good and built a table out to 600. I shot good out to 500.
Christmas eve, I found a buck I wanted so I cut the distance from about 1200 yards to 503. my rangefinder however kept reading 520 to the closest thing I could get a reading on. So I dialed for 525 and backed off a couple clicks. Well I missed. I shot high. After it was all said and done, I took new readings with the rangefinder and got 503 over and over.
Point I am trying to make is this:
Make sure you have a reliable rangefinder (I am trashing mine and getting a new one)
Make sure you practice a lot with the new rig too, just not get it set up for distances.
For me they were stupid mistakes. However I did learn that with my new rig I better practice more than I did and I need to upgrade my aging equipment.
Just a thought
Kique
Enrique O. Ramirez
CLAN OF THE BORDER RATS - Member
"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1
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