Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles "Brush" guns

Couldn't tell you...I barely ever read his posts..


Interesting thoughts from you guys, some stuff I hadn't thought of before...


Swampy posting that he agrees with me is disturbing though....

Never have run a test ,think it would take a lot of shots under a lot of conditions to prove or disprove anything for sure.
I have missed deer in the woods and also hit deer in the woods where I wasn,t aiming. Probably deflection off of limbs and brush.
On the other hand I have had the same things happen when I have shot at deer in the open !
Oooooooooh well I tried !
guess I will begrudgingly have to accept the fact that if I missed or if I hit a deer somewhere other than where I called myself aiming that I just missed or pulled the shot !

I've only had a couple bullets deflected in brush, one was a 165 Swift A-frame out of an '06 that I was flinging at a wounded Waterbuck, and the other was a 55 Gr TBBC out of a .22-250 at a whitetail.

The whitetail caught the bullet and died anyway, Im still wondering what happened to the A-frame...the second one I sent didnt deflect...

When I'm hunting heavy timber I use a MOBU camo Browning BAR ShortTrack in 308 with 180 gr soft point ammo.
Topped with a 1.75x6x32 Leupold VX-III scope.

The whole short/easy to pack thing makes sense in the thick stuff..so does the "go with whatever caliber you like" school of thought..

I think we need to consider what caliber is best for a stand gun next. Which caliber can shoot through the hog panels better if the trophy buck is in the pen under the feeder or on the other side so you have to shoot through 2 panels to nail him at 100 yards or however far away your stand happens to be from the feeder.

270 wthby mag is eliminated from the discussion right off the bat. Ask me how I know.

Might as well go ahead and eliminate a .32 Rimfire from a looong time ago...don't ask me how I know...and I won't ask you....

Brush guns means more about pack ability in the brush and close quarters than caliber.That's just one reason the old 30-30 is so well thought of..Short and compact,easy to maneuver in tight quarters and quick to the shoulder.

I would pick my 18.5" Guide gun over my others for tight quarters/thick timber and the dreaded blow downs.

Jayco

Speaking of Brush babes, did I tell you guys about the lady I saw at a bonfire/keg party years ago?
She had a T shirt with mountains on her chest.
The t shirt read, " If you like my mountains you will love my Busch!"
whelennut
Anyhow I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I think that a 250 gr. bullet out of a 35 Whelen may just be a good choice for bucking brush. I don't think I will live long enough to get a statistically valid sample. Maybe a .416 would be even better?
But I doubt if a .243 has the same chance as a .416 for getting through and still be flying nose forward.

I think "brush guns" have been associated with certain chamberings due to the type of firearm. For example, the Model 94 in 30-30 or the 336 in 35 Remington. It's hard to beat a quick handling lever action in the laurel thickets of the Appalachians, not because it's a 30-30 or .35 Rem, but because it's a lever action and chamberings are limited. In all honesty, a short barreled, light weight, bolt action 30-'06 would probably do just as well, but it doesn't fit the "brush gun" mold. People will stick to what they have confidence in.

I stick to my guns here, ha ha. I think what we call brush guns may vary on what we call brush. Open timber gives longer shots, and arguably more time to shoot. The tag alder / black spruce swamps I call brush allow 25 yd to an extreme of 50 yd shots. I like slow heavy bullets because of blood trails and full penetration. I use single shots because they are short and handy and I know the shot I make needs to be right.

I do not believe in the myth of brush busting and only shoot through what I perceive to be clear shooting lanes. I use faster lighter bullets when in the open, and confess to using 30-06 and 257 roberts in the thick stuff when I have tracked game into it. I hate to admit they work just as well although I always wish I had one of my punkin rollers.

A friend shot a deer with an 06 reload of mine 165gr tsx that went through a 3" sugar maple and then hit the deer in the neck. he could not believe he missed his mark by a foot until returning to collect his pack from the stand and seeing the exit hole splinters on the maple. The maple was only 20 yds from the deer. Like has been said before luck vs management.

Randy

Three "brush" stories with which I was involved....

First was a Manitoba buck that caught a 160 Nosler from a 7 mag that deflected off red willow,tumbled, and spun through the liver....both front and rear core empty.I recovered the bullet.He was dead about 100 yards away.

Second was a 270 130 gr Bitterroot that deflected on unseen branches while snow tracking a lare buck in New Brunswick...at about 30 feet in a heavy pine thicket....it tumbled, smashed the upper leg,and penetrated to the off shoulder....he ran,bleeding heavily. I trailed up and finished him....bullet had peeled off the petal on one side;otherwise still intact but expanded.

Third was a conical from a 50 cal ML fired by my pal at about 30 feet ata big doe,and slightly uphill, my pal being low to the ground....no sign of a hit but we could not see how he missed....until we found one sapling cleanly cut off that had apparently deflected that big lead slug enough to miss her completely.

I never bought the typical brush rifle/cartridge thing completely....it seemed anything could deflect.Another thing i noticed is that a days hunting brought you from thick cover, to cut-overs, fields, logging roads,and power lines where shots could range from a few feet to several hundred yards.

I evolved to a light bolt action in 270 or 30/06(or something like them)firing a high velocity bullet of tough construction,like the Nosler Partition and Bitterroot bonded Core. It made sense to me that if there was a chance I would get deflection, I wanted a bullet with a better chance of hanging together at high velocity and close range,rather than something more fragile.

And the high velocity cartridge would do a better job in the more open areas.

This has worked well for me close in and far out;I hunt the tight cover of the Northeast with the same bullets, cartridges, and rifles that I have used in the west.

My best Brush Gun story and rig are as follows...6/06 with a 6-20 Leo on top with Premier dotz.

Dober

Oh yeah the story, calling Yotes about 10 years ago. Morning deal, 3 dawgs coming a hauling, they hang up at a bit over 300 and the trio sit there, and look and bitch and bark at me.

Well being as I'm a well trained Yote killing machine (thx Ingwe for a the training..grin).

I pop one of the 3 as he sits and barks and bitches at me. Well he does a back flip after catching "flight 70 NBT" right in the chest. The other two volunteers high tail it for the brush next to it.

Thick buck brush and my bud starts to look for them. Well sure enough he finds one in the spotter, gets me on it. I turn it to 20X and put the 300 yd dotz on his beak. Wammo and the beaks missing. We know there's a third on in that thick buck brush but no time to head to the old f150 for my Lever gun. So, my spotter finds the other, and after another 20X beak buster things are all sorted out and we're on the ranchers Christmas list again...

Dober

Brush guns are not for shooting through brush..Every hunter here knows the first shot is the most important and if your shooting through brush,you have know idea if the bullet will deflect or not!

If you don't have a "clear" first shot,a responsible hunter will pass.

Brush guns for me are ones that are easy to maneuver in heavy tangled brush/timber and blow down...If the shot ain't clear...Don't shoot!!!!

I don't!!!!!


Jayco

Mr. Poobah Sir,

I shot a test with my .358 (with 225's) that showed it doing quite well shooting through relatively thin brush. Then I did the same with my '06 running 150's at about 3050 fps. It didn't do as well.

To me, a "brush" caliber speaks as much to what happens when I shoot a deer at 25 feet. Slower and heavier is MUCH easier on the edible parts.

A guy or gal can test bullets in wet/dry newsprint or dirt/saw dust/milk jugs filled with water or like the pro's,ballistic gel.None of it is the real deal and shows us little compared to shooting actual game .

Shooting or testing through brush is the same thing unless "everything" is exactly the same which is not going to happen!!!!!!

A clear first shot or don't shoot!!!!


Jayco

I also ran a brush gun test of my own. I was shooting a 7mm Rem mag against a .450 Marlin. The .450 Marlin really outshined the 7mm Mag with 150's in shooting through thick greenbriar.

Brush is pretty easy to kill. Most anything will do.

I guess 98% of my criteria will be handling and balance. The other 2% is cartridge consideration.

No reasonable hunting caliber shoots thru wood well and your bullet won't appreciate it much either.

I tend to believe that bullet selection is more critical than caliber for that kind of work.

The best advice though, is not to shoot thru stuff at animals.

JM

Almost every "test" I read about used hardwood dowels, not fresh green branches. One I read had the 458 Win mag was the only cartridge that could consistanly go through the dowels. Another test it failed. The "brush busters" failed. IMHO IF the intended game was just a few feet behind some brush you could most likely hit close enough to the aim point with a well constructed bullet (not thin jacketed).