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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,200
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,200 |
Rockchck828, you are way out of line.
You owe him an apology. E
Apparently you and JB have some sort of rectal relationship that make you think you are the GOD's of optic's.........I just happen to dis-agree.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 75
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 75 |
One reason, quality rangefinding binocs
Brad
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Posts: 133
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 133 |
Only "upper level" pair I have is some older Classics.
Hunted with a pair one weekend and had to have some.
Got them for a sale price of $699 and never regretted it.
I don't carry them every pig or turkey hunt, but for seriously studying bucks I do.
jcc
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 |
Rockchck828, you are way out of line.
You owe him an apology. E
Apparently you and JB have some sort of rectal relationship that make you think you are the GOD's of optic's.........I just happen to dis-agree. Life sucks for you doesn't it?
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,279
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,279 |
In the West in particular, seeing better makes you a better hunter. The top tier bins resolve detail far better than lesser bins. They cost more for a reason.
I've been using Swaro, Leica and the upper-end Zeiss (non-Classics) for many years now and nothing I've seen, other than the top Nikon's, have been equal.
I find absolute pleasure being outdoors and top bins enhance that pleasure immeasurably. I'd give up a lot of rifles before I'd give up my Leica's...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 167
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 167 |
I currently own a Zeiss Diascope 85T*FL 20-60x. How do they match up to Swaro and Leica. Ive tried to sell them but now Im pondering.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,246
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,246 |
The Swaro HD spotters are fantastic for sure and I would put them above the Zeiss and Leica spotters, but they come with a steep price tag. The best one I've ever used is a Kowa Prominar 883/884....amazing scope and I put it at the top of the heap, bar none.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,653
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,653 |
The Swaro HD spotters are fantastic for sure and I would put them above the Zeiss and Leica spotters, but they come with a steep price tag. The best one I've ever used is a Kowa Prominar 883/884....amazing scope and I put it at the top of the heap, bar none. While I agree that the Swaro HD spotter might be above the older Leica Televid 77 like the one that I own. Have you seen the new Leica Televid 82 APO ????? Huge WOW factor from both the optic's and the price tag, I believe it was priced at $3499.00 would like to do a comparison
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,246
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,246 |
At a price like that I'll never have the urge to see one. You can get the 884/883 for $2400 with eyepiece. I'd almost bet the farm the Leica can not provide a view any better. The Kowa is amazingly clear, sharp, and bright.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,867
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,867 |
I don't, I have all Leupold and couldn't be happier.
Good Shooting!
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,200
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,200 |
I have all Leupold and couldn't be happier. I like Leupold also. but this statement proves that ignorance is bliss.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,859 |
MckinneyMike,
I loaned my my 13X56 Minox to a fellow who has some Swarovskis. He purchased them because they were on sale for $1,400. After he used my Minox he told me if he had seen them before, he would not have spent the extra money.
I think these binocs are about alphas. The reason I bought them instead of the cheaper Nikons (the only other canadate) is the amount of movement to the sides without blacking out. The Nikons were very nice and several hunderd buckjs less, but for an all day hunt the Minox won the day.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 780
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 780 |
I'd always wanted a pair of "Alphas" but never could see my way budget-wise. After all they represent the ne plus ultra in terms of optics. Then when Swaro changed their frame design ~2007 I came upon a new set of SLCs with Neu coatings like the new SLC Neu model but with the older frame which frankly I preferred anyhow. I also had come to REALLY like 7x bins over 8x through the use of vintage porros. So a great 7x roof with CS like Swaro offers at a nice price swayed me. I became an owner of a pair of 7x42 SLC Bs. They're built like the proverbial brick $%^& house. But they do exact a weight penalty which ultimately caused me to pick up a pair of Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2 bins. The later are lighter than the big Swaros and have great optical performance with a larger FOV although their sweet spot is somewhat smaller and their edges aren't the quality of what the SLCs give. That said you're looking at 95% of the performance in a less overbuilt frame at a significantly cheaper price. CS has been great but obviously Z-R doesn't have the track record of Swarovski. There have been times when I've flirted with flipping my SLCs but between the model having been discontinued and Swaro USA coming through for little needs here and there (e.g. new improved rainguard for my winged eyecups to replace an old one with a torn strap loop provided gratis, etc.), I simply haven't mustered enough desire. Instead it stays in my battery serving when I want the best 7x twilight capabilities and for rough outings. I solved the weight problem with a Vero Vellini 55mm wide marine orange strap for my neck. May look goofy but really works well. All this said I will admit the 7x36 ED2 gets the most usage. Both are great bins. If I had bought the Zen-Rays first, yeah it's more than likely that I would have been good to go without a pair of Alphas. But you can't deny how great the view is with the 7x42 SLCs 
-=[Bob]=-
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,915
Campfire Regular
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From what I have seen and read, it seems that a slight gain in optical quality comes at great cost, what if any other factors "sold" you on Leica, Zeiss, or Swaro.? I ask because I'm considering such a purchase and would like to know what others believe the extra money is buying. I use Zeiss FLs and know that I will never miss anything due to the bins. Better flare control, minimal CA, flat viewing field etc. etc. It's true that there is a diminishing return on one's investment, but so are a lot of things in life.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 802
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 802 |
Because they are the best, offer the highest possible performance.
Its a rarity for most to own the best of anything because of cost. Its nice to be able to own the very best of something.
Its a joy to use premium optics in the field.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,933
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,933 |
Went with Zeiss Victory FL 10x42 due to (reduced) cost over Swaro ELs. Couldn't see spending another grand on a pair of binos. Zeiss is a known entity and I'm not sure my eye could discern the difference for the different in price.
Lastly, went with Alphas b/c it's a known entity. This isn't the case with a brand that's newer to the market.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 313
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 313 |
Most folks base their decision to buy one brand over the other on optical quality... the image the binocular/spotting scope/ riflescope delivers to the eye. This is a logical and in many cases the easiest decision to make.
In this computer controlled world, many brands of optics have excellent optical performance. As many have written, it appears that there is not enough difference in optical performance to make the jump into the "Alpha Optics" price range.
While optical performance is important, and is what is most evident each time to use the optical instrument, optical quality is not the only judge of the quality of the unit. The mechanical reliability of the unit also plays a great part of the optical performance. The engineering decisions, materials, craftsmanship and quality control all come into how an optical products performs, but how it wears and if it will retain it close tolerances in rugged use. Not just how it looks, feels and performs when it's new.
23 years ago I purchased a Leica binocular. It was by far the most expensive optical purchase I had ever made. My friends, family and especially my wife, thought I was crazy for spending so much money on a binocular. I had done so because the older guys in my SCI chapter who were doing the type of hunting I only hopped to do in my life were using them and singing their praises. So I decided to save up and buy a pair, and I did.
I have used those binoculars on almost every hunt I have been on these past 23 years. They have been to Africa, Alaska, Canada, Mexico, and all the Western States. They have performed perfectly all these years. They have NEVER been to the repair shop, and they perform the same today as the day I bought them. Over the 23 years, these binos have been the best and most economical purchase I have made. Plus, I could sell them for what I paid for them.
This is why I buy Alpha optics... It's the best spent money in the long run, I am not buying a new pair every few years. And I have the joy of use and reliability under the worst conditions. Ovis_Chaser
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 741
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 741 |
Good question, Mike. I'm glad I got a Leupold 8X42 GR HD last December from Cabela's when they were closing them out at $500 with the rebate. I purchased my Leica 8X42 Trinovid BA 10 years previous at double that price and I've found the GR to have a sharper view that "pops" out better than the Leica. Don't know how they compare to the newer Euro HD glass, though.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Most folks base their decision to buy one brand over the other on optical quality... the image the binocular/spotting scope/ riflescope delivers to the eye. This is a logical and in many cases the easiest decision to make.
In this computer controlled world, many brands of optics have excellent optical performance. As many have written, it appears that there is not enough difference in optical performance to make the jump into the "Alpha Optics" price range.
While optical performance is important, and is what is most evident each time to use the optical instrument, optical quality is not the only judge of the quality of the unit. The mechanical reliability of the unit also plays a great part of the optical performance. The engineering decisions, materials, craftsmanship and quality control all come into how an optical products performs, but how it wears and if it will retain it close tolerances in rugged use. Not just how it looks, feels and performs when it's new.
23 years ago I purchased a Leica binocular. It was by far the most expensive optical purchase I had ever made. My friends, family and especially my wife, thought I was crazy for spending so much money on a binocular. I had done so because the older guys in my SCI chapter who were doing the type of hunting I only hopped to do in my life were using them and singing their praises. So I decided to save up and buy a pair, and I did.
I have used those binoculars on almost every hunt I have been on these past 23 years. They have been to Africa, Alaska, Canada, Mexico, and all the Western States. They have performed perfectly all these years. They have NEVER been to the repair shop, and they perform the same today as the day I bought them. Over the 23 years, these binos have been the best and most economical purchase I have made. Plus, I could sell them for what I paid for them.
This is why I buy Alpha optics... It's the best spent money in the long run, I am not buying a new pair every few years. And I have the joy of use and reliability under the worst conditions. Ovis_Chaser
Good post. I agree. 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,928
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,928 |
I have a pair of Zeiss 8x30s (they aren't Classics cuz' they were the main line when I got them) that marked their 25th anniversary last month. They are my only binoculars and have seen some hard use. I'm sure they are optically behind newer offerings but not so much that I can justify new ones. I'm not saying you have to get "Alphas" but I can say that mine (for their era) have certainly stood the test of time and use.
Last edited by CCH; 05/23/11. Reason: sorry for bringing up an "older" post, didn't realize how far back I was when I responded.
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