Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Utah Paunsaugunt Deer, anyone here experienced?

Thats a FACT!

There is a reason that some guys consistently kill big animals and some dont. Even if they know units like the backs of their hands. Guys like Ryan Hatch, Chad Smith in Arizona, Doyle Moss, Drummond Lindsey. Im not getting into a pissing match about Mossback, so lets not go there. But I do know Ryan a little, and I grew up roping with Chad, and he is a decent friend of mine. He made it to the National Finals Rodeo in the team roping, with my first cousin Randy Polich. Thats besides the fact, but these guys are making tracks in good units every day. They know where these deer chit, piss and sleep everyday. Its not an accident why they kill big deer. Yes there are many that bend or break rules/laws (Kirk Darner), but IMHO thats not the case with any of these guys. Yes we all know, that Doyle will hire everybody that owns a pair of binoculars to scout for him, but if hes not doing anything illegal, then more power to him. It pisses me off that everytime somebody kills a monster animal, the first thing that is said, usually by a bunch of jealous pricks, is that it was done illegal. I was very lucky a couple of years ago. I killed a 181 b/c whitetail, and then the very next year, I killed a 194 b/c whitetail. The first thing that was said by some of the locals was that I poached them. They were killed 100% legal, and with the 194, I knew there was going to be a bunch of this chit going on, so before I even gutted him, I left my buddy that I was with, with the buck, hiked to the top of the hill, called the game warden, told him where I was, and then drove out to the road and brought him to the kill site. Just so there wouldnt be any bullchit. And just like I thought, as soon as people in town seen the deer, he said his phone started ringing off the hook. I got accused of killing him in a high fence, which there is non within 50 miles of where I was, I got accused of killing him with a spot light, and I got accused of killing him on the ranch that bordered ours, which I was a good 2 miles from the fence line. The neighbor had the buck on trail camera and had missed him the week before and I caught him running doe on us, and I did not miss.
Hell, just last year, I got a ticket because I didnt have my license with me. I was whitetail hunting for both my boys, (8 and 5) I had both of my boys with me, 3 guns, 3 sets of binos, 3 back packs, and we were running late and I ran off and forgot my wallet on the night stand at my buddies house where were staying at. My oldest missed a big aoudad that evening. The warden was watching us, heard the shots, and stopped us on the way out. I had both boys licenses, but not mine, and in Texas kids have to hunt with a licensed adult. The ticket got dismissed, when I showed the judge my license and told her what happened.
Does this make me a serial poacher or law breaker, just because I received a ticket from a game warden have been blessed enough to kill some a few monster deer??? I dont think so.

Toby Joe

You have killed two good deer, hardly enough for a controversy.

Cripes IIRC I was on it the first or second year it opened back up....it was NOT easy.....but through the Hunting Report,it got a pile of publicity....that was the beginning of the end....I went to Canada...

TJ, obviously you dont live in Utah and see what happen's with Doyle Moss. The Utah DNR turns it's head when Doyle or his henchmen close a public road on the Pahvant so that a legal drawn tag hunter has no chance at a monster bull (only the purchased big ticket hunter that he is guiding has a chance).
Or he will bribe or threaten a legal tag holder on the Henry's to stay away from a big mule deer so his big ticket auction buying client can have it.
If you live in Utah you HATE Doyle Moss (Mossback) and what he stands for unless you work for him or have the money to pay him or are ignorant.

That's the first fugg'n thing you've ever posted that I actually agree with!

Where did Flinch go? I bet he is trying to come up with something witty that he can post and then edit

My point was that that any time a large book animal is taken, there is a bunch of jealous pricks that immediatly assume it was killed illegal.

Have had clients in the last 8 years kill 5 different mule deer bucks that scored over 200 inches. It seems every year there is always stories of how we did it illegal because of the nay sayers. Because of them, we usually see the game warden alot on our ranches here in the Panhandle. It has got anymore, when he shows up at the headquarters, I ask what it is now? and he replies, "Same chit, different year", and then we all have a laugh. Never have been given a ticket or charged with anything, other then what I posted above.

Toby Joe

Your right, I dont live in Utah, and damn glad I dont. If that is what Mossback is doing, then sounds like somebody needs an azz whooping. I have ran into the same problem with a certain USO owner when we used to hunt alot of public in NM. I chased this particular bull during archery season. Then took a friend back in there during the muzzle loader hunt. We came in the back side, walked in the dark for 3 hours. As the bull lay taking his last breaths, the guide and his client walked up. I knew they were pretty close, I could here the idiot calling with his Sceary elk call before we killed the bull. He was not happy, and proceded to tell me that he was going to whip my azz, I told him that he may want to tell his camera man to turn off his camera, because I dont think that he wanted any video of what was fixing to happen to him , as I picked up a piece of cedar fence post. Needless to say, he left.

Toby Joe

[quote=TOBYJOETRUBYI told him that he may want to tell his camera man to turn off his camera, because I dont think that he wanted any video of what was fixing to happen to him , as I picked up a piece of cedar fence post. Needless to say, he left.

Toby Joe [/quote]

You should have told the camera man to keep rolling so you could take the film and put it on youtube later.

I couldn't agree more. I've said it before, nobody likes a winner. Also, for others to say basically all you need is good ground to kill big mule deer is laughable. It obviously helps no doubt. There are some awfully big bucks that are only seen for a two week period during the rut. I'm continually amazed that we can ride around with the ranch foreman around Christmas and see this played out time and time again. He's out feeding cattle everyday, and he never sees any of the big, big bucks except then.

JG: That's true on the ground I hunt as well.....the rancher calls after the season, in November,to say they have seen this hog or that and I wonder if they moved onto the place during the rut....or were there the whole time.....headscratcher for sure..

....again, why does Ryan have a target on his back if he hasn't done anything wrong?

I find it comical that you have turned this statement into a giant pissing match. "Ryan Hatch down there keeps getting himself in trouble with the law, due to some shady hunting practices. If you go with him, be prepared to get harassed by the law."

Facts are facts, Ryan hasn't always been squeaky clean and that is why he gets checked a LOT and they watch him close. But again, anyone that is successful at what they do get a lot of controversy, as Toby stated.

Your dick is bigger you win. I was wrong and you are always right. You are the best hunter in the world. You are always on the up and up. You are an expert. Feel better? Jeez, let it go, get outside and get some air. Oh, and I edited this one again, just for your amusement. Flinch

Funny part about UT is, there are a lot of mormons. Part of the mormon belief is helping others. I have never seen a more competitive, backstabbing, deceitful group of "outdoorsman" than what comes out of UT though. Hell, WY actually had to shut down parts of their state during the spring because the UTards were hammering the winter grounds so hard looking for sheds. Now the same group has migrated into CO. A Utard would push down an 8 year old kid, if he thought the kid was about to pick up a spike elk antler.

Worst part is, a lot of UT hunters are good guys, but will still defend the losers from their state regardless.

This is what I meant by "laughable".

Laugh all you want...you think "trophy" hunters waste their time in units known for 150 class bucks, when they are looking for a 190? Nope...

Tell you what, we've got 100 sections of private ground in which the last 4 bucks my buddy and I have killed have averaged 30.25" wide and grossed 192 6/8". I'll bet you $1000 I could turn you loose out there and you'll never see one like that.

I've killed one buck over 190, and two over 200, on public land. I have also hunted some 2nd rate units and didn't see anything over 120....Go ahead, turn me loose...

I love people that brag about their private land hunting accomplishments.

I know the country that JG hunts well and its some of the toughest hunting around IMO. It may be private but the deer densities are low, your walking in sand most of the time and it can be fairly thick with not a lot of places to gain elevation and glass. Its not your average "private land" hunt. Its physically and mentally demanding.

I see both sides here but will add that I think there is more to it than just knowing how to hunt mule deer. Intimately knowing the ground you hunt is just as important, I think that this is why there are some people that are more successful than others, especially in areas like the Strip or where JG hunts where the densities are not as high as they are in other places. My guess is that JG could come up here and not be as successful as a Dogcatcher because he doesnt know and understand the ground and we could head down to JG's place and he would smoke us at finding the animals. That being said, the learning curve would be drastically reduced if you have an understanding of hunting mule deer. Their tendencies and instincts are basically the same

I dont mind hunting units that are not known for producing giant bucks, keeps out the hard core trophy hunters and I like that. I think that here in CO every unit in the state has the potential to produce a 200" deer, some just produce a lot more of them than others.

Here is a buck I have found 2 years in a row in a unit that has never been known for big deer. This buck is a STUD! Look at his browtines...

September 2, 2009





August 5, 2010 Still had some growing to do

Flinch, the problem that I have is that you said that he keeps getting in trouble with the law due to shady hunting practices, made a claim that he was caught a couple of years ago herding deer to his clients with a powered parachute and that as a result he could not own or fly one anymore. These are all FALSE statements yet when called on them you resort to editing posts and telling me that I am not worth the time it would take to prove it. If I am not worth the time to prove it then why did you take the time to edit your posts?

What you did, IMO, is an example of what is wrong with the sport of hunting. You ran your mouth when you really have no clue as to what your talking about. You ran a guy down with false accusations and those accusations can have a direct impact on him and his family. Its simply irresponsible to say things like this, especially when you admit that this is all second hand information.

You call it a pissing match but I just cant stand people that act the way you have here. Your last post you had a sarcastic apology, you dont even realize the harm that rumors have on others. Your just a fool that doesnt have a clue. Yes, people that are successful do get controversy BUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT CREATE THE CONTROVERSY but making false statements. Do you not get that?