Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Rock Island Arsenal 1911's.

Please post on your "knowledge" base of metallurgical properties of these. I'm also interested in how well they stood up to welding of lugs.

I guess if he didn't build a custom on a RIA he would not be doing what he is in the business to do, make $$$.

He did in fact say that the steel was a little soft?

Would you want your $3K custom built on steel that was "a little soft"?

Not in this dog fight and don't want to be. I'll stick with my Colts, Kimbers, Springfields...and one old Norinco

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Would you want your $3K custom built on steel that was "a little soft"?

I called Clark as BrickTop suggested and they WILL make a custom on a RIA. He stated that it was not his first choice but it will work. I asked what was his first choice and he said Springfield, kimber, etc. and that he believed the RIA steel a a little soft, but would work


It sems that they don't classify them as total POS as claimed by BrickTop

I called Clark as BrickTop suggested and they WILL make a custom on a RIA. He stated that it was not his first choice but it will work. I asked what was his first choice and he said Springfield, kimber, etc. and that he believed the RIA steel a a little soft, but would work


It sems that they don't classify them as total POS as claimed by BrickTop

I check in on this thread for amusement. I have a LOT of 1911's.
A friend of mine and i were talking as he was wanting to get one that wasn't too expensive. I mentioned in fact the R.I.A's would probably fit the bill.

If I�m building a gun that has fitted slide/frame rails, I want the hardest mating surface I can possibly get, because a rail job is a lot of expense for very little return, so the answer is an absolute NO. If I�m going to have a gun built with a rail job, I want a forged frame. For the difference in cost, why would you choose anything but the absolute best if you�re going to do THAT much work, spend that much money on it?

If the gun is not going to have a rail job done, then �a little soft� (within normal parameters) is just fine....

Perhaps this would be a good time to discuss just what exactly a rail job gets you (and what it doesn't).

Agreeing with others...This thread has been a hoot. It's also been informative, thanks to Kevin and James. I guess we can thank Brickhead for the motivation.

Anything you do to a carry gun that reduces accuracy reliability is flat out CRAZY.

Made a correction for you my friend; I think this is what you meant to say.

I think a gun with a rail job isn�t quite as fussy as James makes it out to be, but he�s giving you the right drift. If you have a very tight match gun that�s built right, it can still be very reliable due to the fact that everything is constantly returning to precisely the same position during operation. So in one sense it can help the function of a gun that is kept very clean and well lubricated. But when hoards of foreign debris invades your gun, that�s when the trouble starts. One school of thought is that tighter tolerances make it much harder for dirt to get in; this is most certainly true. But once it gets in, you have removed all the room for the gun to naturally work the dirt and debris out.

A gun with a PROPER rail job can be 100% reliable if kept clean and well oiled, and will resist light to moderate amounts of foreign debris. You can have a carry gun with a rail job if you're careful to clean it every so often even if you haven't shot it. Still, I have a STRONG preference for a gun WITHOUT a rail job for damn near everything, including competition (unless I'm shooting bullseye).

Accuracy wise, James again has it absolutely right. If you�re a match shooter at the highest levels of IDPA or IPSC, you pretty much need a gun with a rail job. If you are a bullseye shooter, you have to have a gun with a rail job just to be competitive. EVERYONE ELSE would be best off without it.

To do a rail job on a pre-existing gun you have to peen the slide rails on the frame. This is done by inserting a piece of tool steel into the rail to limit lowering (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=842/Product/1911_AUTO_SLIDE_FITTING_BARS ), and then beat the crap out of your slide rails. I typically will lower the 4 corners as it�s really not necessary to lower the entire surface of the rail unless the rails are WAY off. So, when you insert those bars, and pound on the slide rail, you�re lowering, and peening the rail wider. Next, you put the slide into a vice and give it some very subtle squeezes. It can be done without a special tool, but if you have this (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9861/Product/SLIDE_RAIL_COMPOUND_CLAMP ).

When you�re done, the slide won�t even go onto the frame. So you lightly dress down the rail with a file just enough to force the slide on with a rawhide mallet. Next add some valve grinding compound (Jay and I prefer water soluable Permatex) , and using your mallet, you pound the slide back and forth until you have lapped the two surfaces enough to where the slide will move freely back and forth the full travel distance. To do this takes a good deal of time, and your frame will need to be re-finished. So you can imagine, this is a costly modification to your Roscoe, for AT BEST, a 10% improvement in accuracy. Most guns today have rather tight rails from the factory, so typically on newer 1911�s the improvement is more like 5%, like Jay (James � sorry, getting tired of calling him James) said.

I�ve built a LOT of 1911�s and Hi Power�s over the years, and I�ve only done ONE rail job for myself. Jay knows how well I shoot (and he can give me a GOOD run for my money); I typically practice with my handguns at 150 yards. Even at that, I don�t feel I need a gun with a rail job; I�d rather have the reliability.

NOTE: When Kimber started making 1911�s one of the most noticeable differences between Kimber and other makers (including Colt�s), was the tightness of the rails on a box stock Kimber. I really like how a Kimber slide and frame fit, because they�re tight enough to keep the gun VERY accurate, yet there�s enough play that only severe fouling will ever be an issue. They just struck a good balance, and when I build a carry gun, that�s the level of slide/frame fit I try to get.

Thank you James and Kevin. You said it much better than I could, and with the authority I lack as a non-gunsmith. With all this talk about rail jobs, I thought it a good idea to clear that up for anyone reading this thread and trying to learn.