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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not a good ideal to get aggressive verbally and wave your hands above the shoulders in the face of someone who has to be on edge constantly. Not a sucker punch when your facing someone and they are confrontational. Where is it written that cop can't throw the first punch.
GW Dementia is a bitch.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
God, 22 more months and I'll never do this job again.
Joel, Life after retirement is WONDERFUL! Ed What he said! 
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Not a good ideal to get aggressive verbally and wave your hands above the shoulders in the face of someone who has to be on edge constantly. Not a sucker punch when your facing someone and they are confrontational. Where is it written that cop can't throw the first punch.
GW Dementia is a bitch.  More so for those encountering it rather than those who have it. GW
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. MACHIAVELLI
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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Not a good ideal to get aggressive verbally and wave your hands above the shoulders in the face of someone who has to be on edge constantly. Not a sucker punch when your facing someone and they are confrontational. Where is it written that cop can't throw the first punch.
GW Dementia is a bitch. More so for those encountering it rather than those who have it. GW LOL, that is true.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,863
Campfire Outfitter
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Damn, he got rocked...me thinks he didn't remember any of it until he saw the video... Agreed...but video will get him a nice settlement..and Hunter1960 will be back protecting and serving. Don't hit'em with your hands, too much of a chance to hurt yourself and possibly get sued. You've got other tools on your belt to gain control etc. You folks talk about how wonderful it was in the old days. Many of you don't remember back in the 60's & 70's, that LEO's were trained to box in state certified police academies. I know they were in WA. state. My first hand experience in this is in WA state, being involved in an Explorer Program and riding with Deputies in the mid 70's. You also forget that LEO's carried & used, saps & sap gloves. I've seen Deputies respond to fight calls pulling on sap gloves, and it was punches to the face, to gain control. I've seen sap hits to the head. Those days are over, no saps, no sap gloves. No baton strikes to the face or head either.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 532
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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NH K9,
People are generally the products of their environment and I suspect strongly that there was more to this than the video shows because in my experience nobody gets that pissed off to beat someone like that without some other provocation. That said, it still should not have happened but my money is on the suspicion there was something going on between these two BEFORE the incident and that we are not being told about. By the way, I think you are a standup guy and even though we have disagreed about some things in the past, I would still welcome you to my part of the world. Here's hoping that you put in your next 11 and never lose you edge, because I truly believe that you are doing your duty as it should be done. I have read most of your posts and this is the conclusion that I have come to. Wishing you all the best.
Flower Child
Last edited by Flower_Child; 09/27/11. Reason: spelljng typo
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
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God, 22 more months and I'll never do this job again.
Joel, Life after retirement is WONDERFUL! Ed What he said! Been retired from law enforcement for ten years in October after a little over 30 years. It was a good profession, but retirement is G-R-R-R-E-A-A-A-T!
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
Brother Keith
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Not a good ideal to get aggressive verbally and wave your hands above the shoulders in the face of someone who has to be on edge constantly. Not a sucker punch when your facing someone and they are confrontational. Where is it written that cop can't throw the first punch.
Might have got by with the first knockout punch but the I told you so following first punch likely will cost someone some money.
GW I agree. I don't think I can blame the Cop for throwing the first two punches. To me, it doesn't make any sense at all for a perp to be waving his hands around an Officer. However, near the end of the video it looks like that same Cop threw a couple extra punches after the perp was cuffed. That is what will make the perps case (going to watch the vid again). Stephen
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..watched the last portion of the vid ... kind of looks like the perp had a second wind and was resisting.
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Campfire Tracker
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I've got to hand it to the cops on here that have put in their time, but the younger cops I run into are a bunch of smack-talking little boys who want to impose their will on someone...while talking all kinds of chit that they would never put up with.
Here's to that cop getting ass raped in prison, even though he'll probably just get a payed vacation on the taxpayer tab.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". EB
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
agree. I don't think I can blame the Cop for throwing the first two punches. To me, it doesn't make any sense at all for a perp to be waving his hands around an Officer.
Sure. He should stand like a statue, humble and meek before his lord. Are you an officer of the law?
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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agree. I don't think I can blame the Cop for throwing the first two punches. To me, it doesn't make any sense at all for a perp to be waving his hands around an Officer.
Sure. He should stand like a statue, humble and meek before his lord. Are you an officer of the law? No, I am not an Officer of the Law., but damn it, I have a great respect for them. I am not saying that one should bow down before the Law in every circumstance - what I am saying is that one should be very careful when making hand movements that could be taken as aggressive. I have not had many experiences where I am in conflict with a LEO. I intend to keep it that way.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Ye, you can see the dude making a lot of threatening gestures when he's on the ground getting the schit beaten out of him.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". EB
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Ye, you can see the dude making a lot of threatening gestures when he's on the ground getting the schit beaten out of him.
When I viewed the video, it looked like he was resisting. My viewing of the vid could be incorrect. If he was resisting, then beating him down would be correct in my mind. If he was not resisting, then those last punches would be completely out of line.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll not defend the perp, as I don't know what led up to it and certainly was not there for a first hand account. I will have to say that, with a two on one and you're holding all the cards, it looks like an unreasonable use of force when you are beating the hell out of a guy that is on the floor.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". EB
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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agree. I don't think I can blame the Cop for throwing the first two punches. To me, it doesn't make any sense at all for a perp to be waving his hands around an Officer.
Sure. He should stand like a statue, humble and meek before his lord. Are you an officer of the law? No, I am not an Officer of the Law., but damn it, I have a great respect for them. I am not saying that one should bow down before the Law in every circumstance - what I am saying is that one should be very careful when making hand movements that could be taken as aggressive. I have not had many experiences where I am in conflict with a LEO. I intend to keep it that way. Police have a tough job to do, no doubt, but it's the job they chose. When I was coming up, police got a certain amount of respect because of the badge and the job they did, the rest they had to earn. Today, I still respect the badge and the job, but approach every police encounter with guarded caution based on first hand experiences, and I have never been arrested or spent time in a cell for anything. When people get in trouble for dumb stuff they do, a lot of emotions often come out. A good cop knows how to contain those emotions with what he says and and how he says them and body language. The guy would have been crazy to swing at the cop with another right there and I highly doubt he was going to do anything like that. He was just scared and drunk and the emotions were coming out. The cop made sport of him, and then demonstrated who he was when he beat him some more in cuffs. We don't even know how much he beat the guy since the vid stops as he drew back the third time. That my friend is the difference between a police officer, and a jackbooted thug.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 113
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I'll not defend the perp, as I don't know what led up to it and certainly was not there for a first hand account. I will have to say that, with a two on one and you're holding all the cards, it looks like an unreasonable use of force when you are beating the hell out of a guy that is on the floor. I think we are on the same page,KC. I guess all I'm saying is that if I'm on the ground and resisting, then I'm due a beating. If a PO comes up to me when I'm sipping a cocktail and minding my own business, and he beats my butt, then I would have a problem with it. So far, in my experience, if I'm not slinging verbal insults and waving my hands around his face or piece, I have been treated with respect.
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Campfire Sage
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what I am saying is that one should be very careful when making hand movements that could be taken as aggressive. The only thing that should matter in a free society is whether it would be OK if the situation were reversed, i.e., if a cop were talking smack with gesticulations would it be OK in the eyes of the law for you to do to the cop what this cop did to this fellow? If not, then the cop was wrong and needs the exact same punishment in the law that I'd get were I to haul off and sucker punch a cop who was pissed off and gesticulating at me.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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This wouldn't have happened if the suspect had been handcuffed and escorted out. Officer safety usually means that agitated individuals are handcuffed behind the back when being dealt with.
Although I recall an illegal alien arrested Santa Barbara Horse Show by the Border Patrol back in the day. He was in handcuffs, placed in the rear cage of a patrol car and then repeatedly kicked and punched. The entire episode was witnessed by a rather wealthy stable owner who's father was a friend of President Nixon - crap happened.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,863
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,863 |
agree. I don't think I can blame the Cop for throwing the first two punches. To me, it doesn't make any sense at all for a perp to be waving his hands around an Officer.
Sure. He should stand like a statue, humble and meek before his lord. Are you an officer of the law? No, I am not an Officer of the Law., but damn it, I have a great respect for them. I am not saying that one should bow down before the Law in every circumstance - what I am saying is that one should be very careful when making hand movements that could be taken as aggressive. I have not had many experiences where I am in conflict with a LEO. I intend to keep it that way. Police have a tough job to do, no doubt, but it's the job they chose. When I was coming up, police got a certain amount of respect because of the badge and the job they did, the rest they had to earn. Today, I still respect the badge and the job, but approach every police encounter with guarded caution based on first hand experiences, and I have never been arrested or spent time in a cell for anything. When people get in trouble for dumb stuff they do, a lot of emotions often come out. A good cop knows how to contain those emotions with what he says and and how he says them and body language. The guy would have been crazy to swing at the cop with another right there and I highly doubt he was going to do anything like that. He was just scared and drunk and the emotions were coming out. The cop made sport of him, and then demonstrated who he was when he beat him some more in cuffs. We don't even know how much he beat the guy since the vid stops as he drew back the third time. That my friend is the difference between a police officer, and a jackbooted thug. And what's your first hand experience in this area?? I'ld get some time on the street dealing with drunks and agitated people, before i gave testimony what a good cop should do. No, the LEO was wrong for hitting the person. He had other options as a choice, It's really interesting that when i have something done, such as a veh. repair etc. i don't tell the person doing the work, of which i don't have experience or training in, how to do it. But here at the 'Fire everyone has this, "it should be done this way" belief regarding LE. But what's really funny, is that those with this belief, don't have the intestional fortitude, to go out in their communities and serve in a volunteer position such as a, reserve LEO or even a volunteer fireman. You'ld think that folks with all of this, "this is how it should be done" knowledge, would go out and show, "this is how it should be done" in their communities. But, i guess it's easier to just talk the talk, instead of walking the walk.
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