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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,987 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,987 Likes: 7 |
The reason I always carry a handgun in the woods, even when hunting with a rifle, is that the handgun is always with me. I put my rifle down to field dress or load up a deer, but my handgun is always on my hip. It may not be the idea weapon for protection but it is always available.
Exactly.......
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54 |
The reason I always carry a handgun in the woods, even when hunting with a rifle, is that the handgun is always with me. I put my rifle down to field dress or load up a deer, but my handgun is always on my hip. It may not be the idea weapon for protection but it is always available.
Exactly....... Makes perfect sense. Can't understand folks who disagree with that straightforward reasoning.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 468
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 468 |
Don't know if semi's are allowed but a good 1911 45 acp hard ball comes to mine for bear medicine. I saw a show on TV with a hunter or guide carrying one but don't remember where they were.
Tacksmacker
RIDE HARD, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND DON'T LIE !!
Trying to get to the point in life where all I need is
BEER.....BEANS...and...AMMO
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54 |
Don't know if semi's are allowed but a good 1911 45 acp hard ball comes to mine for bear medicine. I saw a show on TV with a hunter or guide carrying one but don't remember where they were.
Tacksmacker Not enough horse power for grizz IMO. In a revolver, loaded hot with 255 grain hard cast lead semi-wadcutters, maybe .45 ACP would be on the low end of adequate ... maybe, but not hardball out of an auto. In fact, just this year there was a guy who, when walking through the woods with his girlfriend, had to shoot a bear (I believe it was a grizzly) to protect his girlfriend who was being attacked. He emptied his .45 ACP 1911 into it and drove it off, but certainly didn't "stop" it.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
It's the hardball ammo that gives me cause for pause.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Don't know if semi's are allowed but a good 1911 45 acp hard ball comes to mine for bear medicine. I saw a show on TV with a hunter or guide carrying one but don't remember where they were.
Tacksmacker Conventional round nose hard ball is out. I've hunted with a 1911 and hard ball doesn't work. If I was going to use a 1911 for self defense work in bear country I would seriously consider one of these loads from Buffalo Bore. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=70http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214Notice I say self defense against bears NOT hunting bears. Under no circumstance would I HUNT bears with a 1911. Self defense is up close and personal, hunting is not.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
I have been casting these from a 7% tin, 93% lead mixture. The run around 235 gr. Feed and shoot well in my softer-than-chocolate-on-a-hot-day RIA. It is what I would use but then it is all I have.  OOPS  It helps if I would remember to post the picture! ![[Linked Image]](http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww211/compassrosefarms/DSC_4270.jpg)
Last edited by Scott F; 09/28/11.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260 |
What part of Idaho, TRH, and when? When it comes to griz and carrying a heavy handgun in the hills, it makes a difference.
F'rinstance - I'd be much more inclined to pack the 4" steel 29 in the panhandle than in the south-central part of the state, since a griz encounter is much more likely up there and the altitude may be much lower. I never pack anything more potent than a heavy-loaded 4' 357 in the SW part of the state and never worry about being under-gunned (no griz here, AFAIK).
As for the snide "ranch in Idaho" comments of another poster....some of our ranches have lost cattle to griz and wolves.
Speaking of that - elk hunting in Idaho is a very different activity since the wolves have taken over. Expect a hard hunt.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
It's the hardball ammo that gives me cause for pause. Forgive my naivety but...why? If the hardball is a pretty salty load, it should penetrate better than most of the cast stuff, being FMJ in the first place. You have a wide frontal surface and are not counting on expansion. I would not want to hunt Grizzly with a 45 auto, but I would think it would be far from the worst choice for defense.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260 |
It's the hardball ammo that gives me cause for pause. Forgive my naivety but...why? If the hardball is a pretty salty load, it should penetrate better than most of the cast stuff, being FMJ in the first place. You have a wide frontal surface and are not counting on expansion. I would not want to hunt Grizzly with a 45 auto, but I would think it would be far from the worst choice for defense. The round-nose profile makes it tend to glance off anything hard - like a shoulder bone. I've seen .45 hardball fail to get the job done as a "finishing" round on deer more than once. Never seen it actually work well for killing game animals - which typically do not react to gunshot wounds the same as humans.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260 |
It has been pretty much proven that about 90% of the guys who want to carry a handgun for bear protection do not have the expertise to draw and fire accurately enough to stop a bear during a charge,nor do they seldom have the time to do so.. The other 10% do and those are the ones we hear about. All test done by most credible wildlife biologist show that good bear spray is more effective.I'd belive them more so than internet armchair wanna be's. That is utter and complete hogwash. Who were the guys that tested all those handgunners? I certainly wasn't invited to the trial. Where is the data on all those handgunners that tried and failed at the real thing?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
It's the hardball ammo that gives me cause for pause. Forgive my naivety but...why? If the hardball is a pretty salty load, it should penetrate better than most of the cast stuff, being FMJ in the first place. You have a wide frontal surface and are not counting on expansion. I would not want to hunt Grizzly with a 45 auto, but I would think it would be far from the worst choice for defense. They actually don't necessarily penetrate all that well, are prone to veering off course (as are all round nosed non-expanding bullets), and as was pointed out, they can glance off of hard surfaces. If the cast bullet has a wide meplat, the hardball will not out penetrate it, nor will it create as large a wound channel. There are definitely worse ways to go, but hardball ammo is far from optimal.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
It has been pretty much proven that about 90% of the guys who want to carry a handgun for bear protection do not have the expertise to draw and fire accurately enough to stop a bear during a charge,nor do they seldom have the time to do so.. The other 10% do and those are the ones we hear about. All test done by most credible wildlife biologist show that good bear spray is more effective.I'd belive them more so than internet armchair wanna be's. That is utter and complete hogwash. Who were the guys that tested all those handgunners? I certainly wasn't invited to the trial. Where is the data on all those handgunners that tried and failed at the real thing? Well said, FreeMe.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54 |
What part of Idaho, TRH, and when? When it comes to griz and carrying a heavy handgun in the hills, it makes a difference.
F'rinstance - I'd be much more inclined to pack the 4" steel 29 in the panhandle than in the south-central part of the state, since a griz encounter is much more likely up there and the altitude may be much lower. I never pack anything more potent than a heavy-loaded 4' 357 in the SW part of the state and never worry about being under-gunned (no griz here, AFAIK).
As for the snide "ranch in Idaho" comments of another poster....some of our ranches have lost cattle to griz and wolves.
Speaking of that - elk hunting in Idaho is a very different activity since the wolves have taken over. Expect a hard hunt. No ranch. Public land. Unit 4. In the panhandle. Unit 4 ![[Linked Image]](http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/ifwis/huntplanner/images/areaid/175locator.png) You have to forgive Sean for being nasty. I think it's just his nature.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54 |
I've narrowed it down to the Belgian Browning Safari Grade High Power. It's actually the lighter of the two, at 7 pounds, 12 ounces scoped. The Winchester Featherweight is 8 pounds, .5 ounces scoped. That's a 4.5 ounce difference. It also feels better balanced in the hands than the Featherweight. ![[Linked Image]](http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/TheRealHawkeye/IMAG0194.jpg) As soon at the CastCore .44 Magnum ammo arrives, I'll decide which of my S&W N-Frames to bring along.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1 |
They actually don't necessarily penetrate all that well, are prone to veering off course (as are all round nosed non-expanding bullets), and as was pointed out, they can glance off of hard surfaces. If the cast bullet has a wide meplat, the hardball will not out penetrate it, nor will it create as large a wound channel. There are definitely worse ways to go, but hardball ammo is far from optimal. I treated a patient who was shot at near contact distance (powder burns on his face) with a .45 hardball and it failed to crack the guy's skull. I walked in to find a guy who looked like crap, wailing in pain, but consious and alert with an entrance wound above the right eye, and an exit wound behind the right ear, and an officer on scene unloading a 1911 with a magazine full of hardballs. I just couldn't believe my eyes and I told the guy we were going to buy him a lotery ticket on the way to the hospital. In the ER the X-Ray showed coning on the inside of the skull; one of the coolest things I have ever seen (cool, because it wasn't me).
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52,680
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52,680 |
TRH just take your pitbull along.  To all the "eggspurts" here....a lot of difference in purposely hunting a griz with a handgun vs. protecting yourself in an attack...........apples and oranges so to speak. IIRC a little old Indian woman in Canada killed a griz with a 22 Long....not Long Rifle either. It can be done but I wouldn't want to try it. It was all she had.
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 Likes: 1 |
The reason I always carry a handgun in the woods, even when hunting with a rifle, is that the handgun is always with me. I put my rifle down to field dress or load up a deer, but my handgun is always on my hip. It may not be the idea weapon for protection but it is always available.
Exactly....... Makes perfect sense. Can't understand folks who disagree with that straightforward reasoning. LOL... my entire elk/sheep/wolf hunting area is griz infested, and i bet i could count on one hand the number of locals i've seen packing a handgun AND rifle while hunting in the last 30 years.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
It's the hardball ammo that gives me cause for pause. Forgive my naivety but...why? If the hardball is a pretty salty load, it should penetrate better than most of the cast stuff, being FMJ in the first place. You have a wide frontal surface and are not counting on expansion. I would not want to hunt Grizzly with a 45 auto, but I would think it would be far from the worst choice for defense. The hard ball will glance or ricochet of of anything hard. The hard ball was designed to feed in the 1911 and meet Geneva Rules of Engagement which means wounding instead of killing a human. I used hard ball for target shooting but do not use them any more for hunting. BTW: In looking at steel plates for shooting hard ball is not recommended due to ricocheting. Once I get to reloading if I want to shoot plates I may have to load lead for safety.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Seeing as how it borders Montana, prime Griz country, I would imagine that's prime Griz country to seeing as how Griz can't read.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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