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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,993 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,993 Likes: 7 |
I could give a schitt less.
BS has been ranting on FPE and I thought it a bit funny he didn't even have that correct. Now that was funny
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,993 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,993 Likes: 7 |
It is obvious a 243 can kill an elk, but that doesn't mean it isn't a stunt especially at long range. If a 243 is the end all, then why does Mr. Burns himself offer larger chamberings? Perhaps I missed it but, where did Burns or anyone else say that the 243 is the end all? Dober He didn't
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,072 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,072 Likes: 9 |
I used a 105 vld from my 243 to shoot a little buck this year. It worked well, I'll be using them again. My load clocks 3080 from my 26" 8 twist brux.
Bb
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,761
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,761 |
Why such a discourse with John Burns, we woulld never to this to Mule Deer (JB)
Doc
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398 |
I offer the following...If Buckeye thinks his "600" FPE is not enough for ELK @ 688 yds.... then he should feel totally comfortable standing in front of JB @ 1400 yds and the .243...it should just bounce off his LL Bean sweater.
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550 |
IMO...
If the lady has developed the skills to consistently make that shot on game including calculating all the dope and making the adjustments, I tip my hat.
If her involvement was just pressing the trigger, it was a stunt.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10 |
At 688 yards, the 105 started at 3100 would be at 1900 fps.... Maybe at sea level. Not much in WY under 5K ASL.
Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 5000 ft.
Air density : 0.065706 lb./ft�
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Gun / Ammunition : 243 Win
Bullet : .243, 105, Berger VLD
Bullet weight : 105 grains or 6.80 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 3100 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.532@V>0 fps;
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 20 fps
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�Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds �
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| 0 3100 0.0000 2240 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
X 100 2943 0.0992 2019 0.0 0.4 0.40 1.9 0.0 0.00 0.66
| 200 2791 0.2037 1816 -2.0 1.8 0.86 7.7 +2.8 +0.97 1.36
| 300 2645 0.3147 1631 -8.6 4.3 1.37 18.1 +8.0 +2.74 2.10
| 400 2503 0.4314 1461 -20.1 7.8 1.86 33.5 +14.0 +4.81 2.88
| 500 2366 0.5537 1305 -36.9 12.3 2.35 54.2 +20.5 +7.07 3.69
| 600 2233 0.6845 1163 -60.2 18.3 2.91 81.3 +27.9 +9.59 4.56
| 688 2120 0.8064 1048 -86.5 24.7 3.43 111.0 +34.9 +12.02 5.38
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
If you think John Burns killing an elk at 688 yards with a 243 is a stunt, you oughta see the boys that go buy a 300 WSM because the gun mags are raving about it, puts a $700 scope on it, and shoots a half a box of shells trying to get it sighted in. Then, they shoot at every legal deer they see out to 800 yards, running or standing or in a herd. Now thats a stunt! Bet they wound more deer in one season than John Burns does in ten years.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398 |
If you think John Burns killing an elk at 688 yards with a 243 is a stunt, you oughta see the boys that go buy a 300 WSM because the gun mags are raving about it, puts a $700 scope on it, and shoots a half a box of shells trying to get it sighted in. Then, they shoot at every legal deer they see out to 800 yards, running or standing or in a herd. Now thats a stunt! Bet they wound more deer in one season than John Burns does in ten years. Quit talking sense...it confuses those that have not BTDT...(note to say I have not shot a Cow Elk with a .243 from 688 yds) not that I wouldn't with the right setup and range time.
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550 |
If you think John Burns killing an elk at 688 yards with a 243 is a stunt... I believe John Burns has put his time in, however he didn't make this particular shot.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10 |
Burns didn't squeeze the trigger, but his knowledge made it happen.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,539 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,539 Likes: 20 |
So... do you think I could poke a 200lb + buck in the chest with the 105vld at 500yds and not have a tracking nightmare on my hands? Anybody?
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550 |
Burns didn't squeeze the trigger, but his knowledge made it happen. I don't want to assume the lady wasn't involved or doesn't have the skill - I wasn't there. I'm not much of a rifle shooter, but odds are John Burns or lots of guys here could set me up with a doped rifle and I could make a shot far beyond anything I could do on my own. I'd call that a stunt as well.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398 |
So... do you think I could poke a 200lb + buck in the chest with the 105vld at 500yds and not have a tracking nightmare on my hands? Anybody? Different than hitting a deer with a .223 @ 200 yds how?...assuming by chest... you mean hit lungs or heart...
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10 |
Shooting a rifle is one skill set.
Determining how conditions will affect the bullet flight, and correcting for those things is a lot tougher. It requires in depth knowledge of exterior ballistics of the round used, as well as a lot of experience shooting LR in various conditions.
There's a reason "trigger monkey" is a common nickname in some two-man teams.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,124 Likes: 10 |
For a shooter like John Burns, figuring out a 688 yd shot is a VERY easy day.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Friggin' WOW.
John, I'm seriously impressed. Congrats to you, and to her.
And, Shane... quit making sense.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,398 |
For a shooter like John Burns, figuring out a 688 yd shot is a VERY easy day. Couldn't agree more...he had me and my gun on the money @ 600 yds 3 out of 3...then @ 700 ..then his @ 1100 ... Doing trumps guessin every time...
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
It is obvious a 243 can kill an elk, but that doesn't mean it isn't a stunt especially at long range. If a 243 is the end all, then why does Mr. Burns himself offer larger chamberings? Perhaps I missed it but, where did Burns or anyone else say that the 243 is the end all? Dober +1 Million. The guy forgot more about handling a rifle then I will ever hope to know. I for one will not sell every rifle I own and run out and buy a 243 because of that video. All that video shows is equipment used properly suffices at long range. In the real world cattle are killed with a bolt gun and how does that compare with a 243 ? That was one of the more humane elk kills I have seen at least on a video. My hat is off to Mr Burns and his Daughter. The only danger I see in the video is that some halfwit will run down to his local store buy all the equipment, sight it in at the 100 yard range and then think he is set for 1k.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,023
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,023 |
I would have thought that you would know about Greybull Precision since they sponsor the Custom Rifles & Wildcats Forum.. I see now that you only joined this site in May of this year (789 posts already?) so you must have missed the welcoming committee rants about his over priced rifles and stupid custom LR scopes...  I am surpised Burns doesn't give it up, as he must know by now that he is not welcome around here...  [/quote] Nrut- John is welcome here anytime! His knowledge is greatly appreciated by me and many others. If you don't like what he has to say don't read it or respond. Calvin- The 105VLD is an amazing 6mm bullet. Why not load some up and test it for yourself. I wouldnt hesitate to use it on a deer at 500. Congrats to the young lady on a great shot and clean ethical kill.
Last edited by 805; 12/06/11.
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