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Joined: Sep 2011
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 592 |
OK, sambar and elk. The sambar are a touch smaller than elk, but a hell of a lot tougher to stop and .308 is considered the very minimum to reliably stop them, or at least stop them quick enough to find them in dense timber. So i want really optimal bullet performance.
Of course, i could just go up to the 180gr partitions, but i have always felt with the .308, the loss in velocity above about 165gr negated the small benefits with increasing bullet mass with quality bullets (30-06 i'd definitely go to 180gr). However, my ranges will tend to be on the short side (often less than 100 yards). I am still inclined to go with the 165gr accubonds and partitions.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,827
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Campfire Regular
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150 grains as long as it is a Barnes.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 592
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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I really like Barnes and have shot at least a few dozen of animals with them, but i won't be using Barnes for this purpose. Barnes penetrate well, but i also want to open a larger wound tract in this situation so as to increase my likelihood of bringing the animal down more quickly. My experience was that the enhanced penetration of the Barnes comes at the expense of reduced expansion. Certainly at .277 and 7mm, animals with the Barnes all went down, but i would say on average they were more likely to run further than the more expansive bullets. On examination, the wound tracts were far smaller with the Barnes, than say core-lokt (the other bullet i was mostly using at the time). Not an issue when you are using relatively larger calibres for the game you are targeting (and i appreciate some would say .308 is large), but in this situation i really want as big a hole as practical!
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
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Joined: Aug 2006
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New Member
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Use 180 grain Partitions. They are deadly in a .308.
Steeleman
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'd be inclined to try the 165 Swift Aframe.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,930
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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I've had good luck with the 180gr Protected Point Partitions in my .308 Win 70 Classic Stainless Fwt. They make a bigger hole than the Barnes TSX's and penetrate well. Also, I've had impressive results with the Hornady 165gr Interbonds out of the same rifle. They open larger than the Partitions, don't penetrate quite as far, but make BIG ol' exit wounds with good blood trails. I've hit a couple of big northern Missouri whitetails (well above 200lbs) raking shots with these and have still gotten complete penetration.
Bring enough gun and know how to use it.
Know that it is not the knowing, nor the talking, nor the reading man, but the doing man, that at last will be found the happiest man. - Thomas Brooks (1608-1680)
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wish Federal still had their High Energy load with the 180 Partition. That was a rather warm load!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
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At under 100 yards (most of your shots), I don't see how a 180 grain is going to hinder you any. What's the point of a 165 at those ranges?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10 |
In my experience AccuBonds make bigger holes than Nosler Partitions, both because they expand more violently due to the plastic tip, and because the mushroom tends to end up wider, probably due to the jacket getting thicker further down the bullet, plus the bonding.
The Swift A-Frame that Bob suggested would be a good one too, as would the Norma Oryx, which really expands widely. The Oryx, however, is only available in 150 and 180-grain. Another bullet that opens up widely and makes big hole is the Hornady Interbond.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Thanks John. I might start with some factory 180gr Norma Oryx - i like to start with Norma brass anyway. I have used them in 8mm and they really do expand spectacularly at moderate velocities. I doubt any load is going to make as bigger hole out of a .308! It's to go in a little Browning dualis pump (my new old second rifle for visitors) with a 20" barrel, so 180gr just seems right. Everything is really oriented towards quick shooting at close range. If i am unhappy with penetration, i'll go to the partitions or A-frame. Haven't used the A-frame before.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
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The 165 Nosler Partition will give you extensive, reliable expansion, especially since the 165 weight will let you keep the velocity up. The higher velocity will assure faster expansion, but the rear core will assure good penetration too. I just think the 165 gives a really nice balance in the .308.
I have a hard time telling the difference between an Accubond wound channel and a Partition wound channel, especially since I've never had two identical shots on two identical animals with perfect bullet placement on both. Lots of variables there! Even then, with a sample size of one each, that's hardly conclusive evidence.
Between the two, you might want to try both and let the rifle tell you if it likes one better than the other.
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I thought that the .308 Oryx was available in 200 grains.
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423 |
My best client for many, many years shot a .308. In the early years, he used a Leupold 4X and Remington factory 150-grain Pointed CoreLokt ammo.
He was a postman and could walk. Heck, he even did canyons, which was rare for a paid client.
During the second half of our hunting relationship, he still used the same old Remington 700 BDL (I free-floated it and glassed the recoil lug), but he changed to a Leupold 2-7. About this time, I started handloading for him and he shot Hornady 150-grain Spire Point Interlocked bullets (Item #3031) with 45.0 grains of H-4895 ... for a muzzle velocity of 2,850fps
Len shot one round per elk and he never missed. He refused to shoot at a running elk and simply waited for the shot. He didn't care to shoot over 200-yards, though he did occasionally ... mostly we'd sneak up on the bull and clobber him in his bed at 100-yards. He'd just shoot the bull in the back of the neck, under the ear or tight behind the shoulder
I believe Len killed fourteen or fifteen bulls with me as a guide. He simply never had to shoot twice, never missed and never hurried the shot.
My elk hunting was exactly like that and often he would go out with me when it was time for Karen and I to kill our elk. The hunter is patient, he waits for the shot, he places the one single perfect bullet
And he doesn't need a [bleep]' cannon, for pity's sake.
Lotsa truth here and absolutely no bullshit.
Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
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A lot of good sage advice here, people. Why do these experienced writers, guides and hunters speak with the same basic message? Think about it.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
I personally would use the 150 gr Barnes TXS if using my 308 for Elk
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,376
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,376 |
When I last used a .308 for elk I was shooting 165gr Sierra boattails out of a 20 inch barreled 99 E Savage or 150gr Power Points from a 22" Model 88.
The 150 killed quickly but I got the impression it was best used on broadside shots as it never shot through.
If I pulled the 88 out to take it hunting today I would likely use 165 grain Bearclaws, Swifts, Partitions or Interbonds. The Interbonds if I wanted them to die quick and didn't care about bloodshot meat.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,950 |
My best client for many, many years shot a .308. In the early years, he used a Leupold 4X and Remington factory 150-grain Pointed CoreLokt ammo.
He was a postman and could walk. Heck, he even did canyons, which was rare for a paid client.
During the second half of our hunting relationship, he still used the same old Remington 700 BDL (I free-floated it and glassed the recoil lug), but he changed to a Leupold 2-7. About this time, I started handloading for him and he shot Hornady 150-grain Spire Point Interlocked bullets (Item #3031) with 45.0 grains of H-4895 ... for a muzzle velocity of 2,850fps
Len shot one round per elk and he never missed. He refused to shoot at a running elk and simply waited for the shot. He didn't care to shoot over 200-yards, though he did occasionally ... mostly we'd sneak up on the bull and clobber him in his bed at 100-yards. He'd just shoot the bull in the back of the neck, under the ear or tight behind the shoulder
I believe Len killed fourteen or fifteen bulls with me as a guide. He simply never had to shoot twice, never missed and never hurried the shot.
My elk hunting was exactly like that and often he would go out with me when it was time for Karen and I to kill our elk. The hunter is patient, he waits for the shot, he places the one single perfect bullet
And he doesn't need a [bleep]' cannon, for pity's sake.
Lotsa truth here and absolutely no bullshit.
Steve
I wish I was that good.
Our God reigns.
Harrumph!!!
I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,084 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,084 Likes: 6 |
My best client for many, many years shot a .308. In the early years, he used a Leupold 4X and Remington factory 150-grain Pointed CoreLokt ammo.
He was a postman and could walk. Heck, he even did canyons, which was rare for a paid client.
During the second half of our hunting relationship, he still used the same old Remington 700 BDL (I free-floated it and glassed the recoil lug), but he changed to a Leupold 2-7. About this time, I started handloading for him and he shot Hornady 150-grain Spire Point Interlocked bullets (Item #3031) with 45.0 grains of H-4895 ... for a muzzle velocity of 2,850fps
Len shot one round per elk and he never missed. He refused to shoot at a running elk and simply waited for the shot. He didn't care to shoot over 200-yards, though he did occasionally ... mostly we'd sneak up on the bull and clobber him in his bed at 100-yards. He'd just shoot the bull in the back of the neck, under the ear or tight behind the shoulder
I believe Len killed fourteen or fifteen bulls with me as a guide. He simply never had to shoot twice, never missed and never hurried the shot.
My elk hunting was exactly like that and often he would go out with me when it was time for Karen and I to kill our elk. The hunter is patient, he waits for the shot, he places the one single perfect bullet
And he doesn't need a [bleep]' cannon, for pity's sake.
Lotsa truth here and absolutely no bullshit.
Steve
Hmmm....making a lot of sense here..I like that. 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755 |
He was a postman and could walk. Heck, he even did canyons, which was rare for a paid client.
Steve
That reminds me of my last guided hunt. The first thing the guide said to me was "Can you walk?".
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
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