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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,472 |
For kicks, I just got back from from running the +P+ loads over the chrony along with some Fiocchi 9mm.
9mm Fiocchi 124 grain clocked at 1,154 mv
9mm Win +P+ 127 grain clocked at 1,354 mv
200 fps faster. That's enough to bother with it for me.
That puts it right up there with the 357 Sig.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
Yeah, that is osme SERIOUS 9mm ammo there! Now, to find some +P+ 10mm ammo! Don't think there was ever a black talon 10mm, so might have to 'make do' with my silvertips Just kiddin about +P+ 10mm ammo, the normal stuff is pleny hot enough and I want my Delta Elite to last me a good long time.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I'd vote Kimber (or anything else with a ramped barrel) for 10mm+P+ :grin I think Double Tap has some fairly warm 10mm loads, but there too I would not try them in anything except a ramped barrel. examples would be 165's at 1400 fps. In a Colt I found 155's at 1425 fps would bulge the case head over the ramp, which was slightly scary. backing down to 1325 fps made everything good - which by the way is about as hot as the .357 mag is factory loaded, anymore.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
I have heard too many horror stories about double tap ammo. Hottest I will likely run will be some Buffalo Bore 220's at 1250 fps. Cant think of anything I would point a pistol at that this load would not do the job on.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,956 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,956 Likes: 3 |
Whitworth shoots a lot of Double Tap ammo without drama. I have shot some as well without drama. Not sure what you are talking about. Double Tap in general isn't as hot as some others in my experience. Although, I haven't shot every load
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,523
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,523 |
I found two sources suggesting the Beretta slide failures were from batch metallurgical, not gun design issues: Yeah, you’re right; metallurgical…as in the metallurgy was insufficient for the unexpected, newer, higher pressure ammunition spec. If you can’t see that, I don’t know that I can say anything further; we’ll just have to disagree. And it doesn't look to me like Smith redesigned their frame or slide from first to third gen in any manner related to the strength of the gun, and the first gen design goes back to the fifties. You have to be the only guy I’ve ever seen that hasn’t noticed a significant increase in overall “toughness” of the S&W 3rd generation pistols. The lockingcaming system is changed and metallurgically they are much stronger. If you REALLY must know, you can call S&W. The lead design engineer is Herb Belin, that’s who you ask for. My quantification ought to be very evident in the Hi Power. The Hi Power never had longevity problems prior to the creation of the NATO spec. The fact that the new spec beat the Hi Power to death ought to tell you that regardless of the pistol, a steady of diet of NATO pressure vs. a steady diet of SAAMI pressure…the SAAMI ammo fed gun will have a much longer life. Still, we’re splitting hairs here. Like I said, most post-1980 guns will handle +P just fine. But feed more than a couple hundred rounds to an older gun and you MAY have problems. Kevin, I used to think you were objective and unemotional in what you posted, and I admit you know more than me about guns. But now I just think you are full of it when you get caught blowing smoke, and your reading comprehension is apparently nonexistent. Some Beretta slides had low fracture toughness. Some didn't. SOME. That means a bad batch of metal. Not a bad design. Read it again. Slowly. I've owned at least ten Smith autos over the three generations that I can think of now, and I usually forget one or two. I can't see any difference in toughness by looking at them or shooting them, and I don't see any difference in the lockup. Now that you are channeling your inner Take-a-knee by dropping names, why don't you specify what all those massive design/metallurgical improvements are, because I sure can't see what they are? You've blowing smoke out your butt this whole thread without providing anything resembling evidence. I called your BS on the Beretta slides, and you just pretend you can't read. How many people do you think you've convinced will hurt their guns with +P? You haven't remotely quantified dick point squat. Tell me how much faster my gun will wear out from shooting +P or quit pretending you know what you are talking about. I bear you absolutely no ill will though it may seem I'm angry. I think you are one of our best resources on this forum. I just really think you are full of it on this one.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
RufusG,
After all that you say you harbor no ill will; O-KAY. Now this is devolving into a pissing contest and I have no interest in a pissing contest. We look at the same thing and draw two different conclusions; can we leave it at that?
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889 |
to no-one in particular--
straight or angle?
often, the "truth" lies where they both converge...
regarding learning, it's usually not the best thing for one to "wholesale cling" to any particular viewpoint.
i use +p 9 all the time in certain rigs, seldom use them in some, and never use them in others...
let each person be persuaded in their own mind--but only after doing their own homework on a particular matter...
all learning is like a funnel: however, contrary to popular thought, one begins with the the narrow end. the more you progress, the more it expands into greater discovery--and the less of an audience you will have...
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
If given the choice in my 9mm for conceal carry i will take the Plus P, but don't really think the bad guy will be able to tell the difference from the standard HP Loads
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,659
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,659 |
Guess I have a bit of a different viewpoint 9mm+P ???? to me that is known as a 38Super
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,390 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,390 Likes: 4 |
Kel-Tec PF9 3.1" barrel 1) Hirtenberger 100 gr +P+ 1275 fps 2) 124 gr FN Honady bullets and 10 gr Power Pistol. 1336 fps. 3) 158 gr XTP 11 gr Power Pistol, I can't chronograph it.. recoil hurts
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,225
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,225 |
Always puzzles me to see those who deliberately CHOOSE to carry a gun in an inadiquite chambering (9mm), then try to "fix" their poor choice by overloading it (+P).
Wouldn't it be smarter to choose a .40 or .45 to begin with??
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856 |
Always puzzles me to see those who deliberately CHOOSE to carry a gun in an inadiquite chambering (9mm), then try to "fix" their poor choice by overloading it (+P).
Wouldn't it be smarter to choose a .40 or .45 to begin with?? A 9mm is inadequate (correct spelling)? Do any of your rifle or pistol handloads have a higher velocity than factory laods? If so, they're probably "+P".
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547 |
Always puzzles me to see those who deliberately CHOOSE to carry a gun in an inadiquite chambering (9mm), then try to "fix" their poor choice by overloading it (+P). My rifle loony detector just sounded the alarm. I choose the platform first and then deal with the chambering after the fact. I don't carry a 1911 because its a .45 ACP. I wanted the platform first and foremost.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. Robert Frost
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,956 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,956 Likes: 3 |
Always puzzles me to see those who deliberately CHOOSE to carry a gun in an inadiquite chambering (9mm), then try to "fix" their poor choice by overloading it (+P).
Wouldn't it be smarter to choose a .40 or .45 to begin with?? +P ammo is not over loading a 9mm, that is ridiculous
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11 |
I sure wish we had a "popcorn eating smiley" symbol.. I prefer real butter and sea salt...
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
You don't like that Cheddar powder they sprinkle on?
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237 |
Always puzzles me to see those who deliberately CHOOSE to carry a gun in an inadiquite chambering (9mm), then try to "fix" their poor choice by overloading it (+P).
Wouldn't it be smarter to choose a .40 or .45 to begin with?? Inadequate in comparison to the .45 and .40 only if we are discussing them in FMJ. With the best performing loads, you're only talking a couple of percentage points in stopping power. Not enough to be significant. Got the popcorn yet?
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23 |
I shot +P+ Corbon and Federal ammo out of my carry S&W 6906 sparingly for about 15 years.
Don't worry about it.
I am Infantry- Follow me!
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23 |
Always puzzles me to see those who deliberately CHOOSE to carry a gun in an inadiquite chambering (9mm), then try to "fix" their poor choice by overloading it (+P).
Wouldn't it be smarter to choose a .40 or .45 to begin with?? Somehow the rest of the world gets along fine without either the .45 or the .40, including virtually every military force on earth. +P+ 9mm ammo just makes it an equivalent to some .357 magnum defensive loadings. I don't see how anyone could see that as a bad thing. I don't think there is any appreciable difference in the performance of top ammo in any caliber, from .38 special on up. (they all seem to pretty much suck)
I am Infantry- Follow me!
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