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Campfire Ranger
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Since this is the "Ask The Gunwriters Forum" lets see what they have to say,in fun....What they have wrote about the 30-06 and bullets heavier than 180 grains....
John Barsness
Today I don't think there's a real need for anything bigger than a 180-grain bullet in the .30-06
Craig Boddington
I also don't have much use for bullets above 180 grains. Additional bullet weight--200 or 220 grains--offers a hedge against bullet blowup as well as increasing penetrating potential. There are times and places, such as using the .30-06 on brown bear or when Hemingway used his Griffin & Howe Springfield on lion, rhino and Cape buffalo. I don't use the .30-06 for such game, so for me a good 180-grain bullet is all I need.
Jayco I hope you feel better now. <g> Shoot what you will, be not worried so much what others do.
Randy
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Campfire Ranger
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Hecks ya! How does that thing feed and what barrel length? It feeds very well through the M700 action. Like most American L/A receivers, the M700 rails are pretty much married to the 06 cases to begin with. Even a M700 S/A in 243 or 308 are almost, but not quite as good as a 06 case through a L/A. So I'd say the 06AI feels about the same as a 308 based cartridge through a M700 S/A. Long time ago I built a 284W on a S/A M700--it never jammed, but it was sort've like shifting a fence post in a bucket of gravel....... It's a 22 inch bbl, I run 200gr Pt's at just shy of 2800fps. It has been shot on a M43 Oheler Ballistics Lab and averaged 60kpsi--so it is at the (former  ) pressure limit.......
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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M700 S/A.
Long time ago I built a 284W on a S/A M700--it never jammed, but it was sort've like shifting a fence post in a bucket of gravel.......
[/quote]
This hopefully won't derail the thread two far but that's been my experience as well..
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Outfitter
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Since this is the "Ask The Gunwriters Forum" lets see what they have to say,in fun....What they have wrote about the 30-06 and bullets heavier than 180 grains....
John Barsness
Today I don't think there's a real need for anything bigger than a 180-grain bullet in the .30-06
Craig Boddington
I also don't have much use for bullets above 180 grains. Additional bullet weight--200 or 220 grains--offers a hedge against bullet blowup as well as increasing penetrating potential. There are times and places, such as using the .30-06 on brown bear or when Hemingway used his Griffin & Howe Springfield on lion, rhino and Cape buffalo. I don't use the .30-06 for such game, so for me a good 180-grain bullet is all I need.
Jayco
I hope you feel better now. <g>
Shoot what you will, be not worried so much what others do. Geez, no kidding, it's like he's spastic that anybody here is going to use the 200 instead of the 180. I'm sure he can find a gun writer that says the 130 out of the 270 is plenty for elk and the 150 is not needed. I thought this thread was about getting a 200 to 2,700.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Without trying to start a fight, just HOW do you get 2,700 out of 200gr bullet in an 06 anyway. Been shooting one for 40 years, and believe that 2,500 - 2,550 about tops, especially with the 22" barrels so many wear. It's obvious you haven't bothered to read this thread.
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's a 22 inch bbl, I run 200gr Pt's at just shy of 2800fps. It has been shot on a M43 Oheler Ballistics Lab and averaged 60kpsi--so it is at the (former grin) pressure limit...... Very Kool set up. How many grains? Have you tried 7828 in it? Or a slightly more slower powder?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hmmmm. I've got a .30-06, 200 gr Nosler Partitions, H4831sc all on hand.... Of course there's also a .300 WSM in the safe, so perhaps no reason to push my ol '06 so hard. The 300 WSM really shines with 200's... 2,850 is just right. Think RL17. FWIW, a compressed load of H4831sc also works pretty good. 2900fps(24") was fairly easy to do but that was probably about max. R17 and 200's acted wonky in my 2 rifles, H4831sc did the trick. Reloading gack.....
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Mark, going from the Hodgdon web site and their loads.
Here is what we see using 7828.
200 GR. NOS AB IMR 7828 .308" 3.300" 53.0 2323 45,000 PSI 58.0C* 2559 58,100 PSI
Broken down it shows us;
2,300 psi per grain of powder
47 fps per grain of powder
Adding 3 grains (for a total of 61 grains) at 6,900 psi and 141 fps you have
64,900 psi and you have exactly 2,700 fps mv.
(61 grains of 7828 SCC easily fits in a 06 case)
Knowing that 7828 is a slower powder than H4831
I would now be more cautious in using Seafire's load of 63.5/H4831 grains of powder.
But also taking into account my 30-06 COAL is longer than Hodgdons and I believe the AB has a longer shank than the Partition.
7828 should give you a nice "BOOM" when you shoot it and not a "CRACK".
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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As Lyndon Johnson used to say, let me make a few things perfectly clear:
1) Around (not exactly) 2700 fps with a 200-grain Nosler Partition is one of the greatest combinations in hunting ballistics. It plain works, shooting flat enough, penetrating deeply and killing well, without shredding a bunch of good eating meat.
2) Yeah, I once did say no bullet over 180 grains is needed in the .30-06. That was after various super-premium bullets appeared. Back in the 1970's and 80's when I started using the 200-grain Partition, it was the best all-around bullet for game from pronghorn to elk--and I used it on everything in Montana in that weight range except for the tags I couldn't draw: pronghorns, whitetails, mule deer, black bear and elk.
It worked fine.
3) Apparently Logcutter will always be a dipschit.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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3) Apparently Logcutter will always be a dipschit. And that is an absolute.
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Campfire Ranger
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Randy
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Campfire Tracker
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Mark, going from the Hodgdon web site and their loads.
Here is what we see using 7828.
200 GR. NOS AB IMR 7828 .308" 3.300" 53.0 2323 45,000 PSI 58.0C* 2559 58,100 PSI
Broken down it shows us;
2,300 psi per grain of powder
47 fps per grain of powder
Adding 3 grains (for a total of 61 grains) at 6,900 psi and 141 fps you have
64,900 psi and you have exactly 2,700 fps mv.
(61 grains of 7828 SCC easily fits in a 06 case)
Knowing that 7828 is a slower powder than H4831
I would now be more cautious in using Seafire's load of 63.5/H4831 grains of powder.
But also taking into account my 30-06 COAL is longer than Hodgdons and I believe the AB has a longer shank than the Partition.
7828 should give you a nice "BOOM" when you shoot it and not a "CRACK". In my experience, velocity does not always track in a linear fashion with powder charge and I don't think pressure does either.
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I agree with you, but I also think it gives us a good estimate to look at when compared to our own handloads when working up a load.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I didn't say that velocity always tracks directly with velocity. I said it does with single-based powders in their typical pressure range--and unless you're using Hodgdon Extreme powders, different temperatures cause variations. Even with Extreme powders, you're likely to see not-in-line increases above 70 degrees F.
But if you load a .30-06 with, say, 57 grains of IMR4350 and a 150-grain bullet, and the load chronographs an average of 2850 fps, if you fire loads with 58 and 59 grains on the same day, with the same rifle, you will get just about 2900 fps with the 58-grain load. (58/57 = 1.017, and 1.017 x 2850 = 2900). With 59 grains you'll get 2950 fps. (59/57 = 1.035, and 1.035 x 2850 = 2900.) Try it sometime. Unless your chronograph isn't all that accurate, it works.
Double-based powders vary some from this formula, according to how much nitroglycerine is added to the powder, but average around 1.5 times as much velocity as the percentage of powder added.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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3) Apparently Logcutter will always be a dipschit.
LOL!!! Boy, is he gonna cry long and hard over that one..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire Oracle
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3) Apparently Logcutter will always be a dipschit.
LOL!!! Boy, is he gonna cry long and hard over that one.. Yep...its nice in an ever changing world that some things always remain constant.....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire Ranger
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[quote]
Very Kool set up. How many grains? Have you tried 7828 in it? Or a slightly more slower powder? I run 58.5gr of IMR4831. I'd MUCH rather use a less temp sensitive powder, but I could never get good enough accuracy out of H4831 to suit me--which boggles my mind 'cause H4831 works for me in every other cartridge that can use slow burning powder. IMR 7828 wouldn't get me any more velocity than a regular 06. I am thinking about fireforming new cases and trying H4831 again or trying some of the Ramshot powders. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I didn't say that velocity always tracks directly with velocity. I said it does with single-based powders in their typical pressure range--and unless you're using Hodgdon Extreme powders, different temperatures cause variations. Even with Extreme powders, you're likely to see not-in-line increases above 70 degrees F.
But if you load a .30-06 with, say, 57 grains of IMR4350 and a 150-grain bullet, and the load chronographs an average of 2850 fps, if you fire loads with 58 and 59 grains on the same day, with the same rifle, you will get just about 2900 fps with the 58-grain load. (58/57 = 1.017, and 1.017 x 2850 = 2900). With 59 grains you'll get 2950 fps. (59/57 = 1.035, and 1.035 x 2850 = 2900.) Try it sometime. Unless your chronograph isn't all that accurate, it works.
Double-based powders vary some from this formula, according to how much nitroglycerine is added to the powder, but average around 1.5 times as much velocity as the percentage of powder added. I can say from experience this is right. I learned this from MD and experimented accordingly using Homer Powleys equations programed in Excel. It works very well with all single based powders, regardless of mfr. SU's linear method also works. My playing around indicates ~ 2000 psi (40-50 ft/sec) per grain of powder added. Which leaves a cartidge like the 30-06 which has a 60k psi SAAMI, adding 2 grains adds ~ 4000 psi and 80-100 ft/sec and 64k psi. With most of the 55-58k psi loads shown in many manuals, 3 grains can be added to get to 62-64k psi. Same works for the 7 RM and 280 which all have simialr SAAMI's. At the end of the day, I think 2700 is doable in a 24" 06 at pressures less than 65k psi - just like the 270, 25-06, about all the magnums. If my gun liked loads in the high 2600's with 200 grainers, I'd do it............
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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BTW: While we're gacking, run a 30-06 with an Accubond against a 300 magnum at 2900 with a lower BC (AFrame, Grand slam, etc). The difference at 3-4-500 yards ain't alot. And without the magnum recoil.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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