Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Length of Pull

According to Wesbrook, and he knows a thing of two about stocks: To mearsure the shooter. Grasp a rifle by the pistol grip. Measure from the center of the trigger's curve to the inside bend of ones 90 degree elbow. Go a little longer for big boomers in case one is a stock crawler.

On a firearm - front of trigger bend to rear center of butte plate or recoil pad. I measure 14" and that's what I build my stocks to. When I die, someone is welcome to cut them down.

Then there is drop at heel and comb, cast off, pitch, and toe out. A well fitted stock is a joy to handle and I wish I had taken up carving about 30 years ago. Working up a 6.5 x 55 right now, and might have it picture ready in a month of two. The finsh probably won't be done till around August.

If Wesbrook says that he is dead wrong, period. It has been kicked around as a rule of thumb for years and is a long way from accurate in a large percentage of folks. In my case at 6'4" with nearly 7' of wingspan tip to tip and narrowish shoulders. It reads over 16" on the arm. 14" is what I like for warm weather.

Is Wesbrook where you got the wrong skinny on measuring LOP, too?

Art, have you really considered whether you are the exception or the rule? Methinks you have a lot longer forarms than average.

Is the best way to achieve perfect fit a try stock? If so how many are willing to pay a fair price to be properly fitted? My experience has been that not that many are really that interested in having a properly fitted stock made for them.

From what I've seen, though the elbow to first finger pad method may not be perfect, but It is closer to what people usually end up with than naught..............dj

Hardly... While my arms are longer than average the guess provided by forearm length is no more valuable than the color of your eyes in stock fit. Just because it happens to work for some does not mean it is useful, even for the ones where measuremnets coincide because other means must be used to determine whether they are correct or not anyway.

If you believe in self-fulfilling prophecy go ahead and measure that forearm, and multipy by the eye color while dividing by the shooter's age... Might as well, they will be every bit as accurate that way. Or just say 13 1/2" is the right LOP for everyone.

I believe it was Saddlesore that pointed out the thumb should be about 1 1/2" in front of your nose... That is far better than a guess.

And concerns about scope eye are taken away by mounting the scope in relation to the shooter's eye... Amazing concept...

Are we adjusting the LOP as a means of getting our eye closer to or further away from the scope? I think the first step is to get the LOP so you can mount the rifle quickly with hunting clothes on and to keep your thumb from hitting you in the nose under recoil. Step two would be to use various mounts and maybe different scopes with different eye relief to get the scope the proper distance from the eye. In other words, move the scope to adjust to the eye rather than moving the eye (by changing the LOP) to accomodate to the position of the scope. If using iron sights that couldn't be moved, then it makes sense to adjust the stock to put the eye in the best place to use the iron sights.

Is there anywhere I can find a list of people who could "properly" fit a stock for me? I'm mainly concerned with geographic location.

Hmmm... it appears that proper fit is more art than science, and includes a number of variables... no, a bunch of variables... some of which are very subjective on the part of the shooter.

Radius of the pistol grip has big effect on length of pull, tighter radius= shorter LOP.

Shorter (than "ideal") length of pull allows the shooter to compensate for lack of cast-off and toe out i.e. stock crawling.

A 1/4" of toe out is a beautiful thing

Buy, trade and shoot a lot of rifles.

After a time, you'll find the right LOP.

CZ550 FS lists 13.75" as LOP. A few of their other 550 models are the same. A little longer than the 13.5" that seems to be 'nominal'. The FS model feels OK to me, except the comb is low with medium rings, and OK with the iron sights. IIRC, some of the CZ 550 rifles had 14" LOP, couple years ago, anyway. They felt long and heavy.

Wayne van Zwoll in his book 'The Hunter's Guide to Accurate Shooting' said he wants the rifle's center of gravity as close to his center of gravity as possible. I think that usually translates to as short a stock as is manageable. I recall seeing an NFL line player for the Chargers. About 7 feet tall athletic build. He would probably need a longer stock to get the CG closer to his CG for offhand with rifle across his body.

With very little thought, one can easily recognize the variables which will impact measurement of the length-of-pull and the feel of said length. If the trigger is located forward in the guard and the grip is open, the stock will measue long but feel short. A stock that is very straight with little drop at the heel will force the shooter to lower his head and place his face forward. Without meaning to do so, he might find himself in close proximity to his thumb and risk what professionals call " a solid digital/nasal connection".
I am about 6'1" and have long arms in combination with shoulders like a trout. I'm comfortable with about 13 3/4 to 14". On my prone rifles, I like about 14 and a quarter.
I have had some fairly short customers who insisted on a longer pull than I would have recommended. They ended up shooting with the butt out on the point of their shoulder. All wrong, but they were insistent and happy with it. GD

An old gunsmith looked at me one time, looked at my Sako 75, and recommended a LOP that was shorter than I was used to. 13.25"

Took a chance and I was happy with how it turned out.

Ever notice that the Ruger Compact Rifle fits just about everyone that shoulders it. Just an observation from letting folks shoot mine.

Wesbrook does indeed mention that there may be some variation in personal preferences.


But what if we're fitting Barbara Streisand?

Sorry, but it works for me. Given that the world is not populated with clones, there are exceptions to near every rule, and one just might be an exception.

Typically, it's only those that are extremely proficient (like world class shooters) or the extremely rich (that can afford Holland and Holland doubles) that worry about such issues and go the tailor made route. Wish I could afford a couple trips to the UK for fittings. I'm one of those rare poor folks that's taken to fabricating much of my own stuff (fly rods, stocks, and bows), and while I'm at it, I make it to fit.

Likely the best route is for folks to get around one of the competition Anschutz units that's adjustable 6 ways from hell. Tune it up to feel good specs, take the measurements and do the build.

Pretty much...

I will say that JB's notion of the +/- 1/8" for each each deviation from 5'10" is pretty much spot-on for me. I'm 5'8" and a 13.25" LOP on a rifle generally feels right, with 13 1/8" or even a 13" LOP being good for winter clothes if the gun is not a big kicker.

I like the LOP on my rifle to fit me when I'm wearing my Winter Clothes and like nothing longer than 13 inch's . This is one reason i love the AR with the 6 position stock instance LOP to fit me regardless of what I'm wearing . My CZ 204 is a pain in the Ass when calling with the 14 inch LOP . I'm getting ready to cut the stock and refit the pad to 13 inch's even.

Surprising how many guys I know will absolutely refuse to shorten a stock. Ask them why and they'll say they don't want to reduce the resale value.

Never bought a rifle as an investment, myself.

This thread is good example of why I quit measuring LOP using any of the traditional/standard methods. Dependant on stock I measure mine from center of rear screw hole to the end of where the recoil pad will be. I'm 6'1" and my wingspan is 6'1" too. On my serious big game rifles, I shoot a stock that is an 1/8" longer than a M700 youth stock.

And that's why if I order a stock, I tell them to let the length "run wild"--scope, grip, and it's use are all variables that can change the LOP.


Casey

Interesting decision to simply ignore the way the rest of the World... or at least the part with a clue... measures LOP to establish your own system which does not even carry over from brand to brand... Some would even be unmeasurable by your "system."

Do not worry about it though, it is at least as useful as measuring the forearm...

A try rifle is the best way to properly fit a rifle, along with a couple fittings made while the stock is in progress.

Sitka's insistance that measuring from the crook of your arm or forearm doesn't matter at all is nothing more than persistant bull headed silly stubborness. There are so many renowned makers that use the measure as a starting point that it's really pointless to argue, he simply disagrees with a lot of makers vastly more experienced.........................dj