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Hey there all! Just wanted to let the horse folks around here know that I've got a saddle for sale in the "Free Classifieds" section. It's an "extra" so to speak, considering I have three and no horse. On that note, though, does anyone out there know of some good ranch horse breeders, or of a specific ranch-type horse that might be for sale in a month or two? Now that I've graduated and am gainfully employed, I have time (and funds) for my own horse.

Breed doesn't really matter to me--although I'm especially fond of foundation bred, stocky types with great bone. However, I've had plenty of fun on BLM mustangs, Appies, Arabs, and Walkers. I really just want to find something sound that can get me back to camp in the mountains. Age doesn't matter either--although I'd actually prefer a younger horse that hasn't been handled too much. I love ranch-breds who've actually had the chance to properly develop in the wide open spaces.

Here's the saddle, it's a MacPherson: [Linked Image]

I used it a lot for fun little "Wild West" shows I performed in at a local historical park. Here I am with one of my best friends, an Appendix gelding named Brooklyn. Unfortunately, the park won't sell him to me frown [Linked Image]



If you are not willing to go back every day and start over, you should not have started to begin with--because, you might have to start over a lot of days in a row before it carries over from one day to the next. BUCK BRANNAMAN
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The select horse sale in Salmon Idaho is coming up in April. I believe its on the 14th. Some really good stock goes through the ring at that anual auction. My two geldings came from that sale.



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There is a rancher up in the NW corner of Co,about 5 miles from each of the Utah and Wyoming line.His name is Dickerson or Dickinson. His son runs a herd of 30 or so,really nice horses.A lot of blue roans, quarter horses that he sells some.
They are off Colo Road 10 where it goes north from the east side of Browns Hole up to Wyoming. Nice folks and darn good looking horses. Bet you could get anything from a young unbroke to an old ranch horse.
Been wondering where you been since that first thread you posted.

These are free ranging horses that know about everything when they are started and bred to work.

That red roan mare towards the left, looking at the camera kept coming into my elk camp wanting to steal our mules.She was the herd leader of a bumch of yearlings and two yr olds.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by saddlesore; 03/01/12.

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Pat, thanks for reminding me of that sale in Idaho! I've heard some really good things about it from some of my horsey friends.

SaddleSore, thanks for the info on that ranch--that's exactly the type of breeding operation I'd like to visit. Sorry I've been missing for so long--I was actually applying for a new job that first week I posted. The interviews, hiring process, and then actually getting started at work depleted all of my technological energy--I barely checked my emails! I did, however, use my smart phone to check up on all of you during my lunch breaks. It really kept me going as I settled in.

I'm fully situated in my new job now, so you'll be hearing a lot more from me!


If you are not willing to go back every day and start over, you should not have started to begin with--because, you might have to start over a lot of days in a row before it carries over from one day to the next. BUCK BRANNAMAN
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You might look into this web site. They have a classified section and there are more ranch folks on it.

Vince

http://ranchingcountry.com/


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BLS horse sales in Billings MT has a sale at the end of every month.

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4 6s come right to mind. This is likely the best time in the last 20 plus years to buy a good horse. I love a good auction but it wouldn't be the first place I'd start looking. Depending on your interest, I'd call some of the top trainers in that discipline and see what clients wanting out have for sale. My personal choice would be breeders with some of the top of the line stock, and that certainly wouldn't be some color breeder. A breeder that produces winners would be my choice.


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SedonaMare. Don't over look local horses. In past years,I have found some good horses from folks who's kids have gone off to college or such. A lot of them were spoiled,but occasionally you find one a 4h kid has had and knew what they were doing.

For the kind of riding you have infered that you want to do, a good diposition is paramount, at least to me, assuming good confirmation and health is present. Of course if it easy on the eyes and a color you appreciate,that is icing on the cake.

Lot'sa good horses for sale out there at present and I'm sure it will be that way in a month or two.

Around here, with hay running $15 per small bale, a lot of folks are having to sell thier horses,or even give them away.
Finding a good horse is about like finding a prince.You have to kiss a lot of frogs befre you find one. So don't get in big hurry.

Do you have your own truck and trailer to haul one in should you find the one you want?


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Sedona, an 'amen' to saddlesore's comments about looking locally. Check the classifieds, be patient, don't buy anything without being able to try it for a week, and keep an eye out for "rescue" situations that actually work. For years I used to find good horses through classifieds, ride them for a summer, and turn them over for a small profit. When I went back to being a breeder I had to quit that, but it was very fulfilling to find good horses and then find them good homes. Don't be sentimental, romantic or idealistic. If you have a mentor use him. Have someone else take a look at the horse you're considering; make sure they know what they're talking about, and listen to them. Be careful. In today's market, someone looking for a horse is like a rich kid driving up to a crack house and yelling "I want to try drugs!" And don't neglect to post photos and descriptions here, too. You'll have to wade through a little B.S. but... that's the horse business. Should you decide to travel as far as Billings I can be of some help. Make sure you get a catalog ahead of time for any public sale you go to and have someone in the area as a troubleshooter. Jann Parker at BLS (Billings Live) is a friend of mine and if you decided to go as far as Billings I can contact Jann and tell her I want you taken care of. And I got your email and will put a book in the mail...

A Postscript: visit www.hancockhorses.com You might want to check out the breeders listed there or possibly post a classified ad. Again, I know the ladies, Donna and Michelle, who run this web site and they are very ethical and very good horsewomen. Michelle is more hands-on with the web site so if you have questions or want to post an ad she would be the one to contact.

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I agree, Vince, just by perusing the local classifieds I've seen many nice-looking prospects--usually from a horse family trying to downsize and stay afloat. I'm also going to avoid jumping in with both feet without taking a good look at the landing.

Richard, I agree that--for someone looking for a winner--you have to go to the breeders and trainers who raise them. The problem is, aside from the occasional team roping I don't really compete in anything, nor will I have the time too. I'm going to spend whatever time I can get away from work that I can in the mountains. I guess I'm concerned about taking a well-bred, arena type horse out to where it might possibly injure itself and ruin any future value it might hold. However, I gather that you have much more experience in the cutting arena than I do. Have you known any arena horses that converted to
hard-nosed mountain horses? Any horse from the 6666 ranch would be a dream.

MT, thanks for that info! Although I don't own it out right, a friend and I share a nice little 4 horse stock trailer. If I make it up to Billings, I will let you know. The horse trainer that I apprentice for has taken a lot of his home-breds over the years--I will definitely go with him if he heads up there this summer. I will also post any propects I come across on this forum--I doubt I'll have to wade through ANY bs, unlike the last forum I belonged to... (:


If you are not willing to go back every day and start over, you should not have started to begin with--because, you might have to start over a lot of days in a row before it carries over from one day to the next. BUCK BRANNAMAN
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Hi Sedona, I would say thats even better for you. Even in this market to buy a winner you need a truck load of money with you. But by contacting some trainers you may pick up a horse with $10,000+ in training on him that just isn't going to be able to compete in a certain event, but would make a heck of a saddle horse. Most of those guys winning don't give up their competitive horses taking them to the pay window but will unload one thats not going to make it for relative cheap.
As to the four 6s horses being able to hold up, those are some of the few hosess bred in the nation that have a job before they're born. They're bred for purpose, to be workers. You'd have to use one awfully hard to break a horse like that down. I would be more leary of the backyard breeder that allows defects to get passed on just so they make some foals.


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Ken McNabb does his ranch horse sale the first part of June in Douglas Wy. If you watch RFDtv a couple of his shows are devoted to highlighting different horses. Good luck

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Need a saddle horse..

I've got 180 to choose from...

3-7 year olds. any stage of development, unhandled to broke ready to go.

If you never ridden a gaited horse then you are missing something. ;-) You'll get to camp more efficiently and less worn out. Both you and the horse. Walkers, Saddlebreds and foxtrotters don't count. ;-)

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Impressive. Those horses have a very consistant look.


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Rocky Mountain Horses.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

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Prettty nice looking horses.


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I love Rocky's! beautiful horses. Love the pictures!

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Here's one that just completed 90 days...

We call him Rocket!

This horse will go all day..and then some. He's been to the hills, on trails and moved cattle as well.

[Linked Image]

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Nice looking horses. Please tell me more of the Rocky mountain horse breed.

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Long story short..

An exceptional horse was brought to KY where he was found to have the exceptional way of moving, efficient, smooth, fast...very "cold blooded" temperament. Gentle, willing and smart. He came from the Rocky Mountains. Hence the name. The horse was named Tobe. Tobe was bred and had 5 sons.

We have grandsons of the 5 sons of Tobe and a grandson of Tobe standing at stud.

This breed is what they have always claimed. Gentle, Smart, willing, smooth, fast, efficient and when conditioned can go all day long. They have a distinct 4 beat gait (when asked to gait) that is different than the other gaited breeds. This gait can be from 4-17 mph.

I came from a background of Mountain Pounders. Big stout horses that can go to the hills and last all day long. Quarter horses draft cross types. Since we've been managing this ranch I've discovered what I was missing when wanting to cover country. Even the challenging, tough rugged country of the Rockies. This breed handles it with ease, speed and efficiency. One of our horses placed 11th in the Tevis Cup. This is a 100 mile endurance race. Usually dominated by Arabians and Thoroughbreds. Not any more.

We are training these horses a bit different than whats out there. Many train these horses as traditional gaited horses. "2 handed" horses where the rider has to ride with both hands. That (in our mind) isn't a trail horse. We are training to ride one handed and still reach and maintain the gait when asked.

That's about it in a nut shell.

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Here's a more "official" description.

Quote
The humble beginnings of Gaited Mountain Horses evolved alongside the Appalachian heritage of the people who settled in the hills of Eastern Kentucky. The Kentuckians� principle objective was to breed a multi-purpose horse that could work the land, be ridden in style and comfort, and serve as an important economical asset. The horses had to be tough to survive the rugged mountain lifestyle, versatile to perform multiple tasks, and have a gentle, willing nature.
Gaited Mountain Horses descend from the Narragansett Pacer, Spanish Jennet, and ambling Galloways of Colonial times. These breeds were well known for their comfortable gaits and willing attitudes, which were an absolute necessity if you spent countless hours in the saddle as your primary mode of transportation.
According to oral history, there was a gaited colt brought from the Rocky Mountain region of the United States to the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in eastern Kentucky around 1890. He was referred to as "the Rocky Mountain Horse" by the local Kentucky people because of the area of the country from which he had come. Little is known about this foundation stallion, but oral history indicated he was chocolate-colored with flaxen mane and tail, and he possessed a superior gait. The stallion was bred to the local Appalachian saddle mares in a relatively small geographical area where the basic characteristics of the strong genetic line we know today was established. This prized line of horses increased in numbers as years went by, branching out in similar, yet distinctively different ways. These are the horses known today under the registries of Mountain Pleasure Horse, Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse, and Rocky Mountain Horse.
Gait
The distinctive, easy riding gait is difficult to describe, but once you've experienced it, you won't settle for anything else. The horse does not trot; but instead moves each foot independently and laterally - left hind, left front, right hind, right front absorbing the bounce of the gait in its ankles, rather than passing that bounce along to the rider.
The Rocky Mountain Horse Association�s definition of this gait is �an evenly spaced, four beat lateral gait with moderate forward speed and extension, without exaggerated knee and hock action.�
The gait is natural. It is maximized by careful selection and responsible breeding, and refined through proper training, consistency and repetition. One of the joys of breeders of Gaited Mountain Horses is to see a young foal �hitting a lick� as it keeps up with its mother�s long strides.
As a rider gets to know his or her mountain horse, they will find the horse can be ridden at varying speeds while maintaining the same smooth, comfortable gait. And there's nothing quite like the �pick-a-pock-a� sound of a Mountain Horse gaiting down a blacktop road.
Versatility
Today, Rocky Mountain Horses and Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horses are being used as a pleasure horses, for trail, competitive or endurance riding, and for show. These horses have a lot of natural endurance; they are sure-footed on rough ground and, because of their gait, they require a minimum of effort by both horse and rider so that together they can cover a greater distance with less tiring.



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I couldn't remember how they were bred and got that same page after a search. Kind of like the traits of the Morgan they breed in the north. There seems to be some evidence that in the times when people actually used horses, a gaited horse was pretty desirable. Its funny how when I mentioned they had a consistant look, your response was they're Rockys. As a QH guy, and they're all I really know, the bred has been so disrupted by poor Association judging that often QH's do not resemble each other, whereas your horses had a type. I wish someone would save the QH's. Heres a picture of my Grandfather with some type of gaited horse, I think a Walker. [Linked Image]


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I remember some gaited-breed association (Missouri Foxtrotters maybe?) that used to advertise:

Our gaits are bred in, not nailed on.

Always enjoyed that one.


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It is true that the "Rocky's.. as well as the Kentucky Mountain Horse ( pretty much the same thing, for augment sake) All have the genetic's for the gait. Hence they are naturally gaited. Very few breeds are that way.

Too many "gaited" breeds have mechanical methods used to "teach" the gait. Not so with the Rocky's. Yes some Rockies "have it" better than others but they all have it.

They Rocky Mountain Horse association is so serious about keeping the breed pure that to register any horse you have to prove the gait by submitting a video of the gaiting ability and judged by a certified representative in order to receive certification of authenticity that it is indeed a "Certified Rocky Mountain Horse"

The QH breed has been so refined and so specialized by various people for various things that is is so "watered" down that much of the original desirable characteristics are "washed" away.

I've often said to many people. "the worst thing that ever happened to the domestic horse was ... man"

My wife and I have trained several BLM Mustangs. We own as few as well. A true Mustang is an amazing animal. There are certain things in them that you will not see nor find in a domesticated horse... so much so that your training approach is a bit different.

The horse, your horse... is a mirror to your soul and sometimes you may not like what your see. B.B.

An amazing quote that can be applied in many ways.

This is "Smoke" My mentors personal horse, Hell he's more a a father to me than anything. I just happened to capture the "moment" when the horse was looking into me.


I framed this for him in a much larger version. Within the frame it reads

""Where there is "Smoke" there is fire. Burning from a desire to travel trails few have trod.""

Sorry I got side tracked and rattled on...
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This is someone that knows:

I've often said to many people. "the worst thing that ever happened to the domestic horse was ... man"


My variation on that theme - all their problems are man made.


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"Absolute" statements are "always" wrong! smile


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Thank you so much for sharing Cocadori! I haven't seen a Rocky Mountain horse up close, but I've worked with a Walker mare before. She was a bit of a basket case, but boy could she move out on the trail. Once I worked out some of the kinks, her owner sold her for a lot more than I could have afforded to pay at the time. I was honestly sad to see her go.

Please PM me with any prospects you'd like to share--they look like really nice horses!


If you are not willing to go back every day and start over, you should not have started to begin with--because, you might have to start over a lot of days in a row before it carries over from one day to the next. BUCK BRANNAMAN
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Originally Posted by ironbender
"Absolute" statements are "always" wrong! smile


It's a definite possibility of an absolute maybe.

I'm wrong often but not in this case.



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Thanks for the information.

Do the Rocky's have wide shoulders like the morgans? Are they hard to get a saddle to fit right?

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Nope not at all. Not broad like the morgans or quarters. Not too narrow either.

My Wife and I have various McCall Saddles ( lady wade and NW Wades ) they seem to fit just about most of the horses we have. Between the 4 saddles we can find one that fits correctly.

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Interesting. I'm coming aboard late here. Have to agree with you totally on how the specialization of the Quarter Horse is ruining the breed. Still, I am a little wary of alternatives as I've seen them come and go as I enter my 60th year. So, with your horses, how is their headset, what's their typical size, and do they take to cow work instinctively? Sorry, if the questions are repetitive.

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Cheers


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For those that buy/sell horses: (Would like to address mules later on)

A good all around horse for trails, hunting, chasing cows etc..

What do you specifically look for when going to purchase a horse to train/resell or keep?
How does one look at a herd and pick one out? What subtle charactistics are hints at quality?
Finding a a trusted knowledgeable person to help is a blessing, but am looking for a bullet list to help train my eye to be able to pick out quality.

Thanks for your time and patience.



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Cacadori
I was reading over the description of your horses and am trying to figure out if you might be describing a single footed gait. Just wondering. Cheers NC


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Dan, instead of training one you may want to look at some large ranchs and see if they have a quiet 6 -10 year old gelding they've used for the last 3 plus years. Look for a horse with a great mind and great conformation. I started to make a list and it got too long really quick, and there was no end in sight. A brief discription would be straight legs, good bone, short back, low set hocks, short pasterns, good whithers, nice throat latch and tie in,good heels, strong in the loin, and funny enough i don't tend to like a high set tail.

If you could find a picture of a horse by the name of Stoli, he's about what I think a good looking horse looks like.


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Thanks Richard.
At this time it is a mental exercise on what to look for. What outward signs let you know a horse has a good mind? Curiosity, stability, calmness?

Some people just have an "eye" to be able to tell. I'm trying to get more knowledge under my belt. A new horse for me is a couple of years down the road, but it will be mature and experienced as well as smooth gaited horse/mule. (I am a closet mule person)

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I don't like too much white in their eyes, and their eye shouldn't be rolling around in their head either; kidding but true.

I'm not too sure about outward signs. I do like to see how a horse reacts under pressure. If you really start pressuring a horse they'll always go back to the first things they learned, and that will tell you a lot about their training foundation. Getting them out of the enviroment they're comfortable in, start asking them and see what you get.


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And a single swirl on their forehead.


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or neck....


been awhile since i heard that one ironbender.


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Originally Posted by RichardAustin
I don't like too much white in their eyes, and their eye shouldn't be rolling around in their head either; kidding but true.


I had one of those, he was one weird horse. Sucked up to one of my other geldings that would tolerate him and would go out of his mind when I would separate them. Also pay close attention to their feet, the horse is only as good as the foundation they are standing on. A 16+ hand 12-1300 lb horse should have # 2s all the way around. Try to avoid excessive pigeon toeing and make sure the grow some heel or you could be keeping shoes on them year round.



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Originally Posted by northcountry

Cacadori
I was reading over the description of your horses and am trying to figure out if you might be describing a single footed gait. Just wondering. Cheers NC



The distinctive, easy riding gait is difficult to describe, but once you've experienced it, you won't settle for anything else. The horse does not trot; but instead moves each foot independently and laterally - left hind, left front, right hind, right front absorbing the bounce of the gait in its ankles, rather than passing that bounce along to the rider.
The Rocky Mountain Horse Association�s definition of this gait is �an evenly spaced, four beat lateral gait with moderate forward speed and extension, without exaggerated knee and hock action.�

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Originally Posted by mtrancher
Interesting. I'm coming aboard late here. Have to agree with you totally on how the specialization of the Quarter Horse is ruining the breed. Still, I am a little wary of alternatives as I've seen them come and go as I enter my 60th year. So, with your horses, how is their headset, what's their typical size, and do they take to cow work instinctively? Sorry, if the questions are repetitive.


Rocky's have to be between 14.2 and 16 HH
Kentucky's can be taller than 16 HH

Most of ours are about 15-15.2 HH There are a few ( some good ones too ) that are 15.3-16.1 (ish) HH

I've not done a lot of cow work on them. They arn't really a "cutter" but there are some that do take to it.

Headset? (this can mean a bunch of things. what are you looking for?)

Most are even tempered and "cold blooded". Smart and gentle. Many have described this breed as the "Golden Retriever" of horses. If you are looking for a "swing your leg over and hold on" type pony.. probably not going to have what you want. Now I can surly make one like that for you.. ;-)

There are some that we have out of one of our studs that do have the "go get em" type mindset. Like on the previous page (Rocket) is one that I really think you'd be hard pressed to wear out.

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Originally Posted by RichardAustin
or neck....


been awhile since i heard that one ironbender.


Ahhh the old Mexican Vaquero myth... not always true.

We do have one with 3 swirls... one of the smartest, gentlest horses we've known.

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Originally Posted by RichardAustin
I don't like too much white in their eyes, and their eye shouldn't be rolling around in their head either; kidding but true.



What you don't like a wall eyed horse? hehe...

Quote
I'm not too sure about outward signs. I do like to see how a horse reacts under pressure. If you really start pressuring a horse they'll always go back to the first things they learned, and that will tell you a lot about their training foundation. Getting them out of the enviroment they're comfortable in, start asking them and see what you get.


Kind of surprises us at time how much and many of the trainers these days skip the ground work. So many are so eager to sweat leather and turn a dollar that they have many good horses that tend to have to "go back" to school once purchased.

IF people knew the amount of time we invest in ground work they'd think we were crazy. Many don't realize what it take to make a good desensitized trail horse.

It is also pretty impressive as to how much "saddle time" you can gain from just doing good foundation and ground work.

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We have a vet here that did his thesis on swirls.Really interesting to talk to him about it.He stopped one time and looked over all my stock and did a comment on all of them based on thier swirl. He was probably about 95% accurate.

Pat. That #2 shoe is a pretty big piece of iron.I think I only put 2's on one horse in my life and it was a big one.
Around here I'd say average is 1's on front and maybe 0's on back.I think that is one of the bad things that has happened to 1/4 horses. They have bred then down to having too small feet for that big fat body you see most of them having.

Course mules tend to go smaller.My 15 Hd mule takes 0's on front and 00's on back, and I usually have to take a little off the 0's. I still shoe my own.

Unless it is a short heavy boned cannon, most mules have a better gait than a horse of the same size. There are exceptions,but usualy if you put a horse person on a good mule,they remark how smooth they are compared to thier horse.
I have a 13.5 hd fox trotter mule. Kinda light framed,but a lot of heart and a real nice gait.He is pushing 30 though.

The other mule is a halflinger and stocky but does real well.

Speaking of a lot of white in the eye.This fox trotter has more so than most,but is one of the best dispositioned animals I have ever had. Howver,I sure have run into some crazies that had a lot of white and rolled thier eye around.

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Golly, if that swirl thing was only foolproof... we wouldn't need horse whisperers any more. We could get by with horse beauticians. By the way, what's the difference between a horse clinician, a mortician, a beautician, and a politician?
Answer: nothing. Okay, that was weak but it had decent rhyme. confused

As to shoes, I have a Hancock gelding that wears a #4 and my friend Wally, creator of the "Earl" cartoon, has a Clydesdale/TB cross that wears a #7. He special orders the shoes from the Amish.

Cocadori (what's a cocadori?) as to headset, I mean how the horse packs its head when you're on him.
Don't like a lot of white in a horse's eye.


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I've heard a bit about the swirl - as the number of swirls increase the horse's personality becomes more "complex".

I think there are too many variables to rely on a swirl pattern.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
I've heard a bit about the swirl - as the number of swirls increase the horse's personality becomes more "complex".

I think there are too many variables to rely on a swirl pattern.


Probably so,as I remember this vet concentrated on the location of the swirl, high vs low. I ain't saying it's right,just passin on what I have heard.

You guys must have big feet on your horses further north. Which is good if they match the horse. I have always heard that mountain horses should have big feet.Don't know why. My fox trotter mule takes 000 on the front and #1 pony on the back and he sure gets around good.

Most places here that carry shoes only ever go up to 1's .F arrier supply places does have a few bigger ones. though

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Phrenology was once an accepted science, too.

Most horses up here are oughts and ones, quite a few double-oughts anymore.

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Cripes,now you are using words I don't know.


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I'm over my excitement period. It is unbelievable what some people do to em, or don't do with them. I made my way for awhile rebuilding older horses, plenty of them had come from "top" trainers. I figure it was usually from trying to cover to much ground all at once. They got in such a hurry they were late.

I start my training at weaning. From there on they're in the program. By the time i throw my leg over a baby, they're pretty much broke and know everything thats expected of them.


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How about dark vs white hooves? The farrier down the road from swears it makes a difference. Haven't done enough myself to draw a conclusion yet.

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We are still about a month from being able to ride anywhere but on a road up here on the Kenai peninsula. Lots of snow still on the ground.

These threads are both a blessing and a curse.... I'm learning new stuff, but want to get out for a ride. The pics of horses and spaces to ride are wonderful. Thanks to all who have taken the time to indulge and share wisdom!




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White hooves versus dark hooves. My, my, here's to poppin' a can of worms wide open. Personally, I like black hooves. Was told as a little kid that they were best. Spent years breeding for them. My aforementioned (on another thread) friend Merlin runs a horseshoeing school and his sons are top farriers, too. One shoes for a sheik in Saudi Arabia. Merlin is adamant. There is no difference between a white hoof and a dark one. But personally, I like pigment. Not just on the hooves, but everywhere else, on cattle as well as horses.

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Kinda like the dark ones myself. Seem to be a bit harder.

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old cowboy told me watch for the curl on the forehead as already stated by ironbender. Also, if you can grab their tail and pull them around by it, probably pretty well experienced.


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If you're going to find thin hoof walls its almost always in a horse with white hooves; i've never seen a dark hoof have thin walls. That said just because the hoof is white doesn't mean it's thin, but best to check.


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My late friend and mentor, Danny Mendes, had told me about the whorl's on a horse's forehead or neck, and how it was an indication as to it's personality. Danny grew up with the Vaquero's in the San Joquin Valley of California, so I guess that is where he got that idea. However, I haven't found it to make much difference with my horse's what kind of whorl's they have. As to training, I too am a BIG beleiver in lot's of groundwork. Had to sift through a lot of BS over the year's, but nothing IMHO take's it's place.

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Oh and Sedona Mare, I haven't seen mention of it avywhere for a while, but Bill Smith has always had a big Ranch Horse sale in Thermopolis, Wy once or twice a year.

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Dan, we've had both colors of feet down here in these sky islands that can be as rough as any where. Usually black seem a little better but the best footed horse I ever had , had 3 white feet and 1 black and white stripped. The worst I had was black footed and was raised in the rocks but was thin soled. I could pad him with skirting leather and get buy. Always and never just isn't absolute.

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IMLE, always buy local if you can. An honest seller will let you have some time with the horse.

"Safe on the trail" is our motto as some of the trails are very narrow and you could recite a "Hail Mary" before the first bounce.

Our boys:

[Linked Image]

Jordan, registered big quarter horse on the left. Stretch, quarter horse thoroughbred cross. (his gandpappy was Secretariat)

Both are 15, no vices and have seen most everything that can spook a horse.

Most outfitters out our way use draft quarter horse crosses. Keep the "dudes" safe in the high country.



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Originally Posted by saddlesore


Pat. That #2 shoe is a pretty big piece of iron.


Not really, most of the 16+ hand horses I see have #2 shoes. My white one runs 2s on the front and 1s on the back. My paint has 2s all around. The local farriers around here keep a good selection of 2s on their trucks for the throughbreds.



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Originally Posted by interthem


Jordan, registered big quarter horse on the left. Stretch, quarter horse thoroughbred cross. (his gandpappy was Secretariat)




scan the papers and lemme see...

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Originally Posted by interthem
IMLE, always buy local if you can. An honest seller will let you have some time with the horse.




Some time.. huh?


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Originally Posted by interthem

Most outfitters out our way use draft quarter horse crosses. Keep the "dudes" safe in the high country.



That is not why they run draft/quarter crosses.

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Larry stick to stuff you know.. Ponies ain't one of them.

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It's not uncommon at all for someone to try a horse for a week and return it if they're not satisfied. In fact, it is a very common practice in my parts and has been for ever.

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yeah, Ranch Horses.. I get it. Trail horses?

Ranch hands and true ranchers have an understanding for ranch horses and trail horses. Most know how to ride and what they are looking for. A guy like Larry (for example) who want a trail horse to ride in the summer and maybe that fall for a trip or 2. That's a whole new ball game. Dudes are not ranchers or ranch hands. Those of you who know that... know that. That's as politically correct as I can be.

Too many irresponsible people. Maybe I'm soured by some of our past clients. We spend a lot of time getting things right. Soft, supple, relaxed, collected and responsive. Riding with "your feet" and "your body" not just the reins. It doesn't take long to put a hole in one. Again, those of you who "know ponies" know what I mean.

So much so that our policies are moving towards requesting if not requiring that any finished horses sold the new owner needs to spend a day if not 2 with us before taking the horse home.

Too many horses need new tune ups after a month with new owners.

I'm pretty steadfast on the new policy.

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Okay, I was thinking more about people like Sedona (its her thread) and not "Larry," who I assume is the person I have on "ignore."
No doubt I would not let a dude try a horse for a week. But, if a relatively inexperienced rider was interested in a horse and would take coaching, I would spend an hour with them and then let them try a horse for a day. There is no substitute for a satisfied buyer.

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Now we are on the same page ;-)

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Outfitters are using those draft crosses mostly to take care the 300 lb dudes that show up.

I don't buy/sell mules any more. Health issues have caught up with me.However,I always tried hard to match the rider and the mule.Just to sell a mule was never in the game.

Depending on the person I might have even let them take the mule for a month for atry. Others,I told them to come out to my place and ride as often as they wanted,but when the mule left my place it was thiers.


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Well I guess all the real outfitters I know are just liars. 300 pound dudes ? Considering how few 300 pound men there are who are active hunters, one would hardly select quarter/draft crosses for the off chance of a 300 pound hunter.

They (the outfitters) tell me these horse are safe on the trail, tough enough being ridden every other day w/o ill effects and are superior in snow.

But what could I know .... I only live there.

I am amazed at the belief of the premier Colorado "bossman" to think that he can demand that I dig out Stretch's papers, scan them and post them here for his benefit.

Actually, they are in the safe deposit box in WY so I can't get at them until after June. Now if he wants to make it worth my while to disprove his veiled allegation that I am a liar, I would be happy to do that come Summer. Otherwise, not worth the effort as I have $10,000 coming in from Bricktop in June.


Hey NSAQAM, Larry is very "IN", LOL
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Originally Posted by interthem
Well I guess all the real outfitters I know are just liars. 300 pound dudes ? Considering how few 300 pound men there are who are active hunters, one would hardly select quarter/draft crosses for the off chance of a 300 pound hunter.

They (the outfitters) tell me these horse are safe on the trail, tough enough being ridden every other day w/o ill effects and are superior in snow.

But what could I know .... I only live there.

I am amazed at the belief of the premier Colorado "bossman" to think that he can demand that I dig out Stretch's papers, scan them and post them here for his benefit.

Actually, they are in the safe deposit box in WY so I can't get at them until after June. Now if he wants to make it worth my while to disprove his veiled allegation that I am a liar, I would be happy to do that come Summer. Otherwise, not worth the effort as I have $10,000 coming in from Bricktop in June.



Not sure why you think I'm a CO bossman.. cause I'm a MT bossman.. there "dude"...

I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply aghast at the notion someone would do what you've done. You know since flat out speed is a requirement in them thar hills.. cause the trails are so well suited for that. Soooo yeah, I'm calling you out that you'd buy a trail horse that has "Secretariat" on the papers. Never mind only "two" back. You realize what "2 oz" of secretariat was worth right?



Outfitters "you know" or outfitters that take you places cause you are paying them.. there's a whole buncha difference there.


There are so many [bleep] stupid things you've said that I hardly know where to start...

Saddlesore is [bleep] SPOT ON in his statement... 300 #'s was tongue in cheek but only you'd miss that...

Quote
They (the outfitters) tell me these horse are safe on the trail, tough enough being ridden every other day w/o ill effects and are superior in snow.


Really Root? only quarter/drafts are capable of this right? Sweet Jesus I better sell all my horses for a 1/4 draft for just the snow season... WOW.. LAFFIN'

Look DUDE.. Outfitters run the larger warm-blood crosses (look it up) because in the end they happen to take LARGE dudes many mile with way too much stuff they were never told to bring. Therefore a large horse that is over-sized for the DUDE bouncing on on its kidneys (look it up) amongst other things (like their overwhelming ability to actually ride and not look like a monkey [bleep] a football (picture it)) tongue in cheek again there Larry.....will make it much easier on that particular pony that day. Therefore a warm-blood cross (review it) will last longer with more stamina after carrying some DUDE into the wilderness thinking he wants to experience all there is to the western way of hunting.

Quote
But what could I know .... I only live there.


Well call me "captain obvious" as you are [bleep] SPOT ON in saying that!!!

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I don't even like to let people ride my horses unless i know they're ready to buy, becuase it usually means i'll have something to fix when they're done. I encourage people to bring their trainer, bring their vet (with the understanding that if the horse isn't 100% sound I'll pay the vet, otherwise its their bill). Once a horse leaves my place I really don't want it back. IMO anything that can go wrong will if a horse is involved, and I'm not taking responsibility for someone elses mistakes.


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AMEN!

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Sorry I confused MT with CO....equally dumb, keep electing Democraps.


Hey NSAQAM, Larry is very "IN", LOL
You also dishonor the 28th division by using the unit patch as an insult.
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right you are ironbender, deleted.

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Don't feed it guys. This is a polite forum.


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There is an old saying that says "You are better off to ask a cutter to borrow his wife than to ask to borrow his horse". Anyone who rides well trained horses knows what im talking about. Just sayin.

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Originally Posted by interthem
Sorry I confused MT with CO....equally dumb, keep electing Democraps.


Holy loonie bin bat man.. what does electing anyone have to do with this.

Go away Root... far away...

You've no business here nor talking anything related to equine.


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My first horse was a draft cross - not sure what. He was big boned, big hooved and mellow. He was 26 when I got him and I returned him to the people that I got him from at 30 for their grandchildren to learn to ride on. Died last year at 35..

I sure liked his mellow laid back attitude.

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Yeah there are a lot of good ole pounders like that.

I think the oldest horse on record was a draft..56 he lived. Pulled barges for a living.

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He had two gaits. Walk and jig. but he took care of his rider.

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Originally Posted by SedonaMare
Hey there all! Just wanted to let the horse folks around here know that I've got a saddle for sale in the "Free Classifieds" section. It's an "extra" so to speak, considering I have three and no horse. On that note, though, does anyone out there know of some good ranch horse breeders, or of a specific ranch-type horse that might be for sale in a month or two? Now that I've graduated and am gainfully employed, I have time (and funds) for my own horse.

Breed doesn't really matter to me--although I'm especially fond of foundation bred, stocky types with great bone. However, I've had plenty of fun on BLM mustangs, Appies, Arabs, and Walkers. I really just want to find something sound that can get me back to camp in the mountains. Age doesn't matter either--although I'd actually prefer a younger horse that hasn't been handled too much. I love ranch-breds who've actually had the chance to properly develop in the wide open spaces.

Here's the saddle, it's a MacPherson: [Linked Image]

I used it a lot for fun little "Wild West" shows I performed in at a local historical park. Here I am with one of my best friends, an Appendix gelding named Brooklyn. Unfortunately, the park won't sell him to me frown [Linked Image]



Is this the same saddle you have for sale on line for $500.00 ? it has the same pictures of the saddle and of you riding a horse in the ad.


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Originally Posted by Dan_H
How about dark vs white hooves? The farrier down the road from swears it makes a difference. Haven't done enough myself to draw a conclusion yet.

Doug Butler (he literally wrote THE book on horseshoeing - The Principles of Horseshoeing (I&II)) did an extensive study of hooves, composition, strength, etc.

His conclusion is that there is no difference in strength between light and dark hooves.

He says, "A few breeds, when selecting for preferred color patterns, have apparently selected for hoofs of poor quality".

It's been my experience that if a horse has bad feet, there is a higher likelihood that the feet are light rather than dark. Which is different than 'white feet are generally weaker than dark feet'.


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Had a dude fall off a perchron cross on the trail. The saddle was loose and spun right under the horses belly with the rider still attached. That horse froze and didnt move a muscle till they got the guy untangled. Hard to put a price on a horse like that.



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Had a percheron we had rented to pack.First she bit me on the shoulder,then a few miles further, she bit me on the tit. Yep, could not put a price on her as she wasn't worth hardly anything to me.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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The percheron I am talking about was a bucking horse of all things. It was obvious he wasn't very good at it.



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Campfire Oracle
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Miss Ginger Blue, a gray Percheron/QH mare saved me from thermokarst holes in the woods in Fbks a few times. Once I figured out why she wouldn't listen to me, I trusted her more.

One of my favorite horses.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Originally Posted by ironbender
Once I figured out why she wouldn't listen to me, I trusted her more


When in doubt sometimes its best to let them have their head.



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Campfire Oracle
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If she had stepped in that thermokarst, she'd have surely broken a leg and might well have injured me.

She was a big, gentle, wonderful old gray mare. She just wanted me to work with her!


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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