Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Gelatin Testing Last Week... Bad News for 380 Lovers...

I realize they can't test every thing, but I sure would like to see how well my 32H&R stacks up against the 380 and 38sp. I feel pretty safe with the 115gr gold dot at 1000fps for a home load and a 118gr SWC at 1100fps as a general carry load.

Not that I don't have bigger, but I like to carry the 32s on the farm.

Docrocket, thanks for the interesting topic and hope I didn't come across as a total azz on my post. I'm very familiar with the selection of the 10mm and did have all the FBI's videos they produced on topic and their testing procedures. I wish I still had all that stuff including their info on the Miami shooting. (Is Fackler still around?)

Remember computer man, I think it was called?

My problem is that I'm a little jaded on the latest and greatest. The .380, 32 and 22 have punched the ticket for many. They are not ideal but then again nothing is 100% and we all have seen things that just couldn't happen. We were issued the 9mm Silvertip long after the FBI abandoned them and they worked on the street too even with some less than ideal placement. I'd still be carrying them on my own if my stash wasn't so old.

At the present I carry the little guns as an all the time in my pocket. Not ideal but I'm not going to roll over and quit because of that.

I think most failure is due to software rather than hardware anyway. We all pay our money and take our chances.

Due to the marginal penetration of 380 HP ammo, some folks advocate shooting ball, and aiming for a CNS hit � head or high chest, penetrating to the brain or the spine� I realize this can be a real challenge to accomplish in an actual scenario, but wonder what the FBI/police data show with regard to ball ammo in the 380?

I think that I'd still rather have the 380 that I would carry with me rather than the 44 Mag SRH that is lying there in the safe at home.

Doc, Thanks for this very informative thread. Most of us just don't have access to this type of data.
I actually carried a Walther PPKS 380 for a time because they lay so flat under the clothing. They are kind of hard to hang onto when one finger is just hanging there.
Now I like a 642 instead. If concealment wasn't needed I would carry an N frame for sure.
When I took my concealed carry test the instructor did a night fire shoot and I was surprised how much less muzzle flash my 1911 had compared to the guy next to me shooting a 380. He was lighting up the place with that little Browning! One of the biggest concerns for me is whether or not to carry in a pocket or else finding just the right holster.
The wrong holster can negate lots of other theoretical advantages. A 1911 is a good belt holster weapon but I like to pocket carry most of the time. Although it can be pretty tough on the blue jeans.
whelennut

Whats SRH?...A .44 Mag carry gun? really?.............Hb

Sure - but there's a whole lotta ground to work with between the two.

I wouldn't call it utterly useless, I can shoot very nice five inch or under groups of eight with CorBons at 55 yards with a Beretta model 86 Cheetah. Which is way better than I can shoot my .40.

under 5 inch 8 shot groups at 55 yds with a .380 pistol shooting open sights? very Very impressive to say the least not only do you have an exceptionally accurate pistol in .380 ACP but you are also an expert shooter, I damn sure wouldn't want you shooting at Me, I wish I could shoot like that..................Hb

Double tap on the 5 maybe?

I am a Big caliber fan, always have been. I love the .44 .45 and 500Mag.....have em all, shoot em all

I also have a little .380 and that is what I carry 24/7

Now, with that being said, I don't have it because its a fad, I do because it's the only gun I will carry constantly without compromise. I do not and will never like a big hunk of steel hanging off the side of my pants, it's uncomfortable as hell and hard to conceal. The other option is inside the pants or in my back and I just don't feel comfortable enough to get to, raise, and fire my gun in time if need be. I do not want anyone ever knowing I have a gun on me unless they need to know. I carry it in my front pocket with a belt clip and it looks like a pocket knife. Bottom line, ANY gun is better than no gun and although we would love to kill all the bad guys, the most important aspect is stopping the threat.

Also, I do not believe that .380 will only penetrate a couple of inches.....I do believe, however, that it's not up to FBI standards because they need more effective weapons, but for day to day personal protection, a .380 will do just fine

And here are the links to the corbon and Buffalo Bore .380 ammo

you know, for all of us non-men who carry .380s

Corbon .380

Buffalo Bore .380

oh, and according to Corbon, their .380 will penetrate 12-17 inches

You really need to try a Kahr P9. carried in a Milt Sparks Executive Companion, you will literally not know you're carrying a sidearm, and it's a serious fighting caliber, i.e., 9mm Parabellum. In my opinion, as long at there's a Kahr P9 there's no excuse for carrying anything less potent than a 9mm unless you routinely go about in nothing but a Speedo.

I'm going to look at the Sig p938 as soon as I can find one. Never will own a Kahr again.

Got a lemon, did ya? It happens.

Any truth to the claim that Kahrs is owned by Korean Moonies? From airport flower bouquets to handguns seems a stretch. Is it true?

Kahr, according to wiki

Now let's talk about Browning.

Yuup

Dr. French Anderson's book on the FBI Miami firefight is still available from, I believe, Caliber Press. Dr. Fackler has retired but I believe he's still "around".



You're right, and anyone who's worked the streets and/or the ER's knows that nothing is 100%. I carried 9mm Silvertip for years, and like you I used 'em all up.



This is definitely true, for the most part. In my training for LE/military I try to dispell the myths about one service caliber being greatly superior to another, and I tend to stay away from caliber discussions EXCEPT when something comes along that is simply too good not to post.

As I previously stated, I'm NOT an opponent of the 380. I don't happen to carry it, though, because it lies outside the limits I've set for myself based on a lot of training and a lot of experience that I can't really be specific about in an open forum. For me, 38 Special and 9x19mm are the minimums for serious carry. And really, if I'm going to carry a gun, I'm not carrying it as a fashion statement, I'm carrying it because I believe I it's emergency equipment I might actually need to use.

Bc, you have articulated your reasons for carrying your 380, and that's what it's all about: YOU make your decisions as to what's a minimum for YOU. The last thing I am trying to say to anyone by starting this thread was that folks should carry what I think is appropriate.

As for the bottom line, yes, you're absolutely right: stopping the threat is the goal. What one decides is the minimum or optimum caliber/gun/load for stopping the threat is a highly individual decision. Whether the FBI or your local patrolman needs a "more effective weapon" than I do as a CCW citizen is debateable; in my case, I've made the decision to carry weapons that meet LE backup gun minimums at least, which for my former departments and my local sheriff's department is 9x19mm/38 Special.

I will say this, though, after debriefing many, many, many cops who've been involved in a shooting. None of them ever said they wished they'd had a smaller gun/caliber going into their fight.