Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Anyone care to talk about PRIMERS?

gtc,

In response to your last post to me. You know there Mr. 38X Bore scope you are going to have to make up your mind on weather I am too cheap to spend money on a barrel, or weather on the other hand I have so much money i only buy real expensive rifles.

i quote:

"It really is not about equipment envy,...............my somewhat impatient attitude stems from the Bizarre aspect of the proposal that a premium match grade barrel should be available at Wal-Mart pricing, that's all............And that from one who obviously has an eye for quality...................as the Meacham is beyond any shadow of doubt one of the finest renditions of the great high wall design...by anybody, anywhere, anywhen."

For your information there Mr. Severeal hundred of barrels man. Price did not enter into my buying that Green Mountain Barrel. It was what I could get at the time. After 9 unanswered messages to Badger Barrel where they always said we will have Ernie get right back to you. That was over a year ago still haven't heard from the sucker, I figure 9 phone calls should be enough. Maybe my money is simple not green enough for old Mr. Stallman, thats fine with me I am more than happy to spend it somewhere else.

Another one of your quotes:

"This current " let's beat up on Ernie Stallman" trend is a PITA.................considering the contribution that the Badger folks have made to this great game. In a time when a unified, and coherant approach should drive shooting sport foward, some choose to snivel, and whine, from their devisive respective camps...............this is bad for the game. in an overall sense"

Once again if and when I have an issue or an opinion on someone like Ernie Stallman, I have the right and the responsiblity to express that opinion. If you don't like it and think it is a PITA --- Tough!! Ernie Stallman is a guy who at one time built a damn good quality BPCR rifle barrel. He also is a nice guy I shot the same relay and bank of animals with him one year at Raton, and we also Ernie and Myself where instrumental in getting a young women college student into the BPCR game with the help of Kirk Bryan at Shiloh and a few dozen other shooters who all contributed a lot of stuff to this young woman. There was a time not to long ago that Ernie really had almost the only game in town, if you wanted a Good and Quality BPCR Barrel you went to Badger first. Well guess what? The world moved on and Stallman didn't. Today Badger is still a good barrel but it sure as hell ain't the only game in town. There are close to a dozen folks out there today who all make a barrel at least as good as Badger and in most cases better. Green Mountain " IN MY OPINION" is a good barrel and damn sure on par with Badger, pimples or not there Bore Scope! And they answer there phone and ship the next day. Ernie Stallman is a piss poor business man who happens to be a nice guy, So What? If he won't even talk to his customers they pretty much get to say what they think. Thats not sniveling nor whineing either one there "gtc" its stating it plan and simple'.

Whether germain or not, I will leave to you fellas. Some years back I was involved in a aircraft accident investigation involving loss of yaw control...turns out the nylon insert for the ALUMINUM control cable support...that cable being STAINLESS wire rope...sans protective insert, the aluminum tab of some .025" thickness, had worn thru the cable strands until it failed under tension loads. The lab boys had a three yard fancy name for the phenomona, but it escapes me at the moment...suffice it to say that sometimes paper trumps scissors.

HEY KELLY!

Since I am using CCI_BR2's right now and having fairly good luck with them (most of my problems are.. um how should I word this .. shooter error <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) I would be interested in comments that you may have about them.

I did find that an over primer wad helped them a very small amount so I will continue to use one.

I have loaded up some loads with Winchester pistol primers, also with an overprimer but have not had time to play with them yet... always looking for a little better load. Let me know if there is something I should be aware of...

On the Green Mountain barrels...I have one on an original roller action I had rebarreled and it shoots up to 20-25 rounds with no blowtubing very well (no loss of accuracy)(it's my hunting gun) I attribute that to a very smooth bore and a damn good gunsmith. I don't think my Badger would do as well but I haven't tried it honestly.

It always amazes me when someone finds something that works well for them, and posts it on these boards, the number of people who jump up and down and scream that it can't work... even though it did!!! I would say if a guy can shoot several thousand rounds of pistol primers with no damage...why would you doubt it? Own stock in rifle primers? what?

Any way
Thanks in advance for the primer info.
Gary

powderflask,

In regard to the over primer wad, I am one of the few who still uses this wad. It worked for me from the start in reducing my ES. This one fact alone instilled some amount of confidence in them "FOR ME". Do they make a huge difference? I don't know thats for sure, but I have become so accustomed to putting them into the case that if I didn't use them I would think I was missing something.

Where I got started with these wads is an artical that Steve Garbe wrote a few years ago. Garbe was on a quest for a cooler burning primer that would more aproxamate the old BP primers of years ago. I have no idea what his research showed and if he stayed with the over primer wad or not. I'm staying with them because as I said "I have confidence" in them.

Gunny

Gary,

The BR-2's were developed for the bench rest crowd as they shoot small cal. with small powder charges. So all the BR-2 is, is a L.P. primer in a slighty larger primer cup.

I'd like to see those pin holes in those primers. I believe those pin hole were caused by something else, not pressure, in these B.P. shooting rifles, I could be wrong, opening for Gunny. I'd think more in the way of a firing pin problem, not properly rounded as in to pointie, to long and so forth.

I'd like to see the actual data for the old time primers and see if they were actualy cooler burning. For my two cents, I believe those old primers were hotter.

As Gunny mentioned, S.Garbes article in SPG News on over primer wads, in that article Steve used a 32-40 for his tests, if I remember correct it's been a while since I'v read it. So, no testing was done in the bigger Calibers, other then by shooters like Gunny. I shot those over primers wads for awhile, even used nitrate paper, with no discernable inprovement in my loads. I've found other loading techniques of more value.

Kelley O.

P.S. Hows the shooting going at your range, now that you have the baffles in place? How's Mooseless/Rick?

Gunny,
I think that I read somewhere about a year ago that Steve G. said that he had given up on the over primer wad. Also, it seems that a number of the guys that I shoot with that were trying them for awhile, also decided that they were an unecessary loading step/distraction. But, if you know that they are working for you, why change? Like I said before, I believe that the confidence factor definately tightens groups!
Kelley- glad you followed up on your thought on the BR2- inquiring minds always want to know. I think that I remember you saying that you shoot an over wad paper wad- do you like Rix think that the funny papers make the most accurate ones?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ......Dennis

Kelly

The Effingham range sure looks different, we've only shot one match and between the baffles and the higher berms you see almost no sky when standing....... But when your in the rifle it is no different than it was before.. all you see is the sights and the target so it really is not a distraction like I thought it would be.

We have another match coming up this weekend and I hope to try the Winchester pistol primer loads while I'm there.

Mooseless is off this week trying to keep from being deerless, I sure do miss him when he's gone cause my e-mail drops to about half the volume <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope that you are continuing to shoot well and look forward to seeing you again, bring that tin hat guy back to St Louis again... that was fun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gary

Kelley,

I also would like to see some information on how those old BP primers compared to the modern ones we have today. i do not believe they where hotter, what with technology as we have it today and all of the primer makers claiming there primers to be hotter than Brand x, I believe that almost if not all primers today are hotter than 125 years ago. But some data would be needed to draw any type of real comparission. Until then we can all just speculate. I say cooler you say hotter a never ending discussion.

One reason I do believe that primers back then where in fact cooler than todays offerings is every single time I have used Large Rifle primers with any Swiss load I have had really bad fouling problems, return to pistol primers and right away the fouling goes away. Now that would be correct only if those primers of old where in fact cooler, if they are hotter as you think Kelley then my theory is pretty much sucking hind teat.

Gunny

Well, I'll be..... Didn't know that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Have never been a CCI fan, but those look like just what I need in both BPCR and my 6mm wildcat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (consistent SMALL SD's??)