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I always thought it would be neat to use black powder in an "old" lever actioned rifle on a deer hunt. Any particular problems that would prevent me using a 94 winchester or even a marlin 336 with black powder for the occasional hunt and would it be better to use cast bullets as opposed to regular jacketed bullets with the lower velocity I would expect?
Lots of experience reloading, none at all with black powder, or the cartridges mentioned for that matter!

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The only reason I havent used BP for mordern shells is the
cleaning problem on modern rifles. I had a H&R BP rifle and the powder leakage into the receiver would jam the firing pin in about 15 shots. I beleive it would ruin a lever action in a year or 2. you simply can not eliminate the problem. a regular muzzle loader is easy to clean compared to say a marlin lever.JMO grin


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I shot a few one time in a 30-30 loaded with pyrodex. It was not all that dirty but again I just shot a few. I loaded the case as full as I could and compressed it. In fact I vibrated a couple to settle it as much as I could. I loaded 170 grain sierra 30-30 bullets and I am not where my records are but it was slow. I asked either here or on the old shooters web site and the consensus was that I could not get enough pyrodex in a 30-30 case to be dangerous. I could have used them to kill deer at medium to short range. miles


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The cartridges mentioned were not originally loaded with BP. Could certainly be done but the same velocity could be had with reduced smokeless loads. Cleaning would be a bother in lever guns, but not impossible...was done for decades in the old Winchester guns. Single shots would be easier of course and cartridges such as the .38-55 more practical.


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I did that for fun many years ago, but that was long before I started keeping notes on my reloading, so I can't tell you exactly how I did it. Like Hurbert said, with real blackpowder, you are going to have a big cleaning job on your hands.

Back during that same time period, I also loaded up a bunch of 12 guage BP shells and shot them at a country club skeet range. I was invited not to bring anymore of them when our group got back to the club house looking like ole Bricktop.


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Not the same class of cartridge, but Chip Mate, who is at the top of the lever action silhouette game, possibly the top shooter, shoots a .44-40 using black powder. Not 100% certain of the chambering, but pretty sure of the caliber. He uses a fairly simple method of managing fouling during a match. If my memory serves me, I'm thinking his rifle is a Henry replica, as it doesn't have a forearm. Pretty cool to watch this tall lanky cowboy type beat the heck out of shooters with modern Marlins (like me).

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Originally Posted by Paul39
Not the same class of cartridge, but Chip Mate, who is at the top of the lever action silhouette game, possibly the top shooter, shoots a .44-40 using black powder. Not 100% certain of the chambering, but pretty sure of the caliber. He uses a fairly simple method of managing fouling during a match. If my memory serves me, I'm thinking his rifle is a Henry replica, as it doesn't have a forearm. Pretty cool to watch this tall lanky cowboy type beat the heck out of shooters with modern Marlins (like me).

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Yep, that's definitely a Henry.


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I'm guessing you would get about 1200 to 1400 fps with a standard weight bullet in any of those calibers with BP, so you would have the ballistic equivalent of a .357 Magnum revolver. Should work OK for deer up to 100 yards if you do your part.


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Originally Posted by patbrennan
I always thought it would be neat to use black powder in an "old" lever actioned rifle on a deer hunt. Any particular problems that would prevent me using a 94 winchester or even a marlin 336 with black powder for the occasional hunt and would it be better to use cast bullets as opposed to regular jacketed bullets with the lower velocity I would expect?
Lots of experience reloading, none at all with black powder, or the cartridges mentioned for that matter!


Those cartridges can be loaded with bp, the result may be less than stellar. I have not loaded the 32 special, but the difference between it and the 32-40 are very slight, and the 32-40 is known historically as one of the more accurate match shooting cartridges.
The 35 remington I load with smokeless and haven't ever had the urge to shoot it with black.
The 30-30 will benefit greatly by adding one of the lubed felt wads for a 31cal cap and ball revolver on top of the powder.
I would suggest if you try any of those 3 to use 3f blackpowder, fill the case to just short of the mouth and then use a Lyman "M" die to compress the wad and powder to just short of the base of the neck. Don't use any more crimp on the bullet than it takes to take the flare out of the case mouth.
Cleaning up after firing blackpowder is not as hard as those on the internet that haven't done it, always seem prone to make it out to be.
Start by opening the action and pointing the ejection port down So when you push the patches down the barrel they fall to the floor/ground). Then blow a few deep moist breaths down the barrel. Then push a dry patch down the bore with a jag on the end of your cleaning rod. Follow that with a damp patch (just water works fine) followed by a couple of dry patches, and repeat until the patches come out clean. At this point you may need to use your favored lead mining technigue if your patches show grey streaks or splotches.
Liberal coat the bore and the inside of the action with your favored bore cleaner. put the gun up until the next outing, don't forget to wipe the oil out of the bore before shooting.
cleaning the cases, deprime the cases, drop into a coffee can with about 1/4 inch of simple green in the bottom, when all the cases are deprimed and in the can fill with water until all the cases are covered. Shake the can for a little bit. Then flush with cold water until the water comes out of the can clear. Spread cases with mouths down to dry, when dry put them into the tumbler and make them sparkly again. If you're not going out in public and don't care if you have grubby looking cases skip the tumbler part.


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I know some folks don't like bore snakes, but here it seems to be a good option to pull the BP residue out through the muzzle, if you have an action that does not allow a conventional cleaning rod. Now how you clean the snake afterwards...that may be interesting... smile



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Or variations on that theme. Note my comment above about Chip's method. With black powder, there is a difference between managing fouling, and cleaning, albeit with similarities. Fouling management involves keeping fouling uniformly soft, and not allowing excessive buildup, during a shooting session or match. Cleaning means total removal of firing residue and protection of the bore.

I agree with my friend Ranch13, it isn't nearly as difficult as some make it out to be.

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I'm guessing you would get about 1200 to 1400 fps with a standard weight bullet in any of those calibers with BP, so you would have the ballistic equivalent of a .357 Magnum revolver. Should work OK for deer up to 100 yards if you do your part


That is about what I remember with my pyrodex tests. I was simply trying to get an idea what would work in a worst case scenario and a person needed to kill some meat. I do remember deciding that I could kill deer but would need to get close. miles


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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
I know some folks don't like bore snakes, but here it seems to be a good option to pull the BP residue out through the muzzle, if you have an action that does not allow a conventional cleaning rod. Now how you clean the snake afterwards...that may be interesting... smile



I'm not sure how you'ld ever get one of those boresnakes clean enough to use again after 1 pass down a bp fouled barrel.
Maybe one of the Otis things where you could change the patch would be alright.


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Chip's method: Piece of weed trimmer line, pointed at one end, melt a blob to stop the patch at the other. Lifetime supply for pennies.

Your choice of cleaning juice.

Paul


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Originally Posted by Ranch13
Originally Posted by patbrennan
I always thought it would be neat to use black powder in an "old" lever actioned rifle on a deer hunt. Any particular problems that would prevent me using a 94 winchester or even a marlin 336 with black powder for the occasional hunt and would it be better to use cast bullets as opposed to regular jacketed bullets with the lower velocity I would expect?
Lots of experience reloading, none at all with black powder, or the cartridges mentioned for that matter!


Those cartridges can be loaded with bp, the result may be less than stellar. I have not loaded the 32 special, but the difference between it and the 32-40 are very slight, and the 32-40 is known historically as one of the more accurate match shooting cartridges.
The 35 remington I load with smokeless and haven't ever had the urge to shoot it with black.
The 30-30 will benefit greatly by adding one of the lubed felt wads for a 31cal cap and ball revolver on top of the powder.
I would suggest if you try any of those 3 to use 3f blackpowder, fill the case to just short of the mouth and then use a Lyman "M" die to compress the wad and powder to just short of the base of the neck. Don't use any more crimp on the bullet than it takes to take the flare out of the case mouth.
Cleaning up after firing blackpowder is not as hard as those on the internet that haven't done it, always seem prone to make it out to be.
Start by opening the action and pointing the ejection port down So when you push the patches down the barrel they fall to the floor/ground). Then blow a few deep moist breaths down the barrel. Then push a dry patch down the bore with a jag on the end of your cleaning rod. Follow that with a damp patch (just water works fine) followed by a couple of dry patches, and repeat until the patches come out clean. At this point you may need to use your favored lead mining technigue if your patches show grey streaks or splotches.
Liberal coat the bore and the inside of the action with your favored bore cleaner. put the gun up until the next outing, don't forget to wipe the oil out of the bore before shooting.
cleaning the cases, deprime the cases, drop into a coffee can with about 1/4 inch of simple green in the bottom, when all the cases are deprimed and in the can fill with water until all the cases are covered. Shake the can for a little bit. Then flush with cold water until the water comes out of the can clear. Spread cases with mouths down to dry, when dry put them into the tumbler and make them sparkly again. If you're not going out in public and don't care if you have grubby looking cases skip the tumbler part.


That is fine for the bore but what about the receiver ? if you don't think those cartridges don't leak powder then you haven't fired many. they are of a lower pressure than a smokeless powder load and do not seal the chamber as good, so there is more leakeage.been there done that. grin


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Bullspit.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Originally Posted by Ranch13
Bullspit.


????


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Originally Posted by Hubert
Originally Posted by Ranch13
Bullspit.


????

Yeh means you're talking out your ass about things you don't have a clue about.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Originally Posted by Ranch13
Originally Posted by Hubert
Originally Posted by Ranch13
Bullspit.


????

Yeh means you're talking out your ass about things you don't have a clue about.


you want to shoot black powder go ahead.I have done it and will not put a black powder cartridge in any modern firearm unless it is easy to dissamble. the trap door is an easiest to clean I had 3 of them and fired black powder in them.. PS. I have done things dumb azzes like you only dream about. grin


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Originally Posted by Hubert
you want to shoot black powder go ahead.I have done it and will not put a black powder cartridge in any modern firearm unless it is easy to dissamble. the trap door is an easiest to clean I had 3 of them and fired black powder in them.. PS. I have done things dumb azzes like you only dream about. grin


Good advise...blackpowder is a damm mess in a levergun.


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