Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Why choose .30 cal or .27 cal when choosing your rifles?

@RinB

I just mean that I think there are a couple of potentially good cartridges that would do very well if people would just take a leap and buy them.

That said. all the mentioned calibers are available here...

The caliber I am leaning towards though is the 6.5x55 SE. rather than the 6.5Creedmoor or the .260Rem

Here is another question...

How important is diameter of a bullet? I have been focusing all my attention on sectional density up to now...

I am planning to hunt Antelope ranging from
Springbok 50-100 pound (what i will be hunting most often)
Gemsbok 400-550 pound (Occasionally)
Eland. up to 2000 but typically 1200 pound (Very occasionally)

Would at some stage like to hunt lion. Maybe just once(its expensive).

With that range of animals on the menu and the fact you will be hunting herd animals, my first choice would be a .308 Win based on what I've read (no experience in Africa) and my experience with a .30-06.

... and yes. This is my first rifle.

I have been hunting with other people though. And have family that own firearms and enjoy chatting about it...

They are .270 and 30-06 shooters. And yes it gets the job done(that said they don't hunt the largest species... not saying they cant, just that they don't. I am sure a 30-06 can get the job done on any African antelope). Just my nature to check out all my options. And the .264 calibres sure look good on paper and i think will do really well on springbok. I could get a .243 for springbok. but the .264 will give me more options

And the .338 will surely do well on the very large antelope like eland and Kudu.

And the .284 will do well on Gemsbok and wildebeest.

that way I still have a .338 if I was ever wanted to hunt lion.

Sure no perfect answer, but I like your ideas - with one minor mod on the bottom end. With the other two as "given", I would go 25 instead of .264 - not a big deal, but more flexible (85 gr to 125 gr) at the bottom. Hope you get 'em all and shoot 'em a lot.

@ramblin Razorback

Just wondering why you say a .308win would be better if you are hunting herd animals?

JJHack, a Professional Hunter who spends the safari season in South Africa and who also hunts in North America, has written a number of times on the Africa forum here at the Campfire that based on several years of experience with hundreds of animals that a .30-caliber is the minimum diameter bullet he recommends due to the difficulty of tracking a blood trail when dozens of hooves are creating a dust cloud and concealing which set of tracks belong to the animal that had been shot. His explanation is based on much practical experience and makes sense to me. He recommends a .30-06 as the minimum cartridge, but I suspect a .308 Win would work very similarly at "normal" (300 or 400 meter maximum ranges), and the .308 Win would recoil less, everything besides cartridge being equal. On the other hand, a lot of people have had success hunting plains game with a 7x57, so different people have different opinions on what should be a minimum. If I am ever able to go on safari in Africa, I'm planning to take a .308 or a .30-06.

CCCC,

Speer makes a 90 gr .264" bullet. I'm not sure that 5 grains less gets you a lot more flexibility, particularly when .264" bullets are available with much better ballistic coefficients and much better sectional densities than the range of .257" bullets that are available. The .25-caliber rounds are nostalgic for a lot of Americans, but for medium to large game, the 6.5mm cartridges equal, and in some situations exceed, their .25-caliber counterparts.

What ammunition is readily available to purchase? That would be my primary angle to consider. As for which cartridge will get the job done on 100-500# animals, anything between a 243 and a 35 Whelen based off of a 8x57, 30-06, or 308 Parent cartridge. Use a Partition, Accubond or something with a good reputation like that.

Just noticed the Eland part of the list. Move my bottom up to at least a 6.5 but I'd go with a 30 caliber. Again I'd look at what ammunition is availably. 30-06 or 9.3 might be the answer as close as your local supplier's shelf.

Exceed? Maybe yes. But, under what specific conditions and at what other cost. I was referring to the normalities.

No argument what you say about availability, but nostalgia has nothing to do with it for me. It has to do with flexibility, and experience. Your position seems dependent on variables not controlled in the factory rifles bought by most.

For example - you can purchase a 90 grain bullet in .264, but have you actually tried that weight/length in a .264 barrel set up for 140 grain and/or 160 grain bullets - and compared that performance (stability/accuracy) to how a 90 or 85 grain works in the usual .25 bore? Try it !! Availability of bullet weights is one factor - design of barrel and related dia./length issues are another. As I said - no perfect answer - but I go with the ballistic favorabilities.

The latest whizz bang rifle for the most ultra modern cartridge is only good for a club without ammo.

That is why so many people choose rifles in the readily available cartridges.

Your caliber choices sound to me like you read a lot....People pick a 270 or a 30/06 frequently because they come in commonly available,good quality,affordable rifles,ammo is available everywhere,and kill about anything.Both are "proven" international cartridges.They also recoil moderately enough tha many people can shoot them well.

Sectional density is a nice number to think about but bullet construction is more important than a paper number.

Lots of very good hunting bullets are made in 270 and 30/06.The 6.5's and 7mm's are good too,and among rifle nuts they offer some advantages at very long range, but not very many under more ordinary hunting conditions.Even then you don't want to be standing in front of a 30/06 or 270 at 600 yards....they will both kill you dead....

A 30/06 is (should be)the center piece in any collection of BG rifles.It's a great place to start(and stop,for some).With lighter bullets it's much like the smaller calibers like a 270 or 280,etc., but its 200-220 gr bullets set it apart from the smaller stuff.Frontal area is a factor(more important I think than theoretical SD numbers),and a 30 caliber has more than the smaller calibers.

Never been but if I lived in SA,hunted, and were limited in the number of rifles I could own,a 30/06 is where I would start.I'd pick a 375H&H over a 338 any day of the week.

So,
Whats better, a .270 or a 30-06?

Good that you're thinking ahead. This is what I did, starting from scratch:

My own first choice was the 6.5X55, but a deal turned up on a .260Rem (I figured that was close enough) for 120-140gr. Then I added a .30-06, for 165-220gr. These two choices, light and heavy, were made to handle any big game hunting situation I'm likely to place myself in, using ammo that is readily available to me, online. Incidentally, I have also added a .30-30 lever gun.

Thanks RobinNH

If firing 220 grainers out of a 30-06 I will effectively not have real need for a 338. And don't need a 375 as i wont be hunting anything that big. Which means that I have effectively limited myself to a max or a 220grain .308 bullet.

My reasoning is that with only three rifles I must try to eliminate overlapping wrt intended use. if there is a 338 in the collection and i consider a 250grain bullet my max wrt bulet weight, I can also load 185 of 200 grain to do the job of the 30-06.

Having the next smaller caliber in my collection be a 7mm I have something that can cover what a .270 will do and a .30 cal will do. I think the jump from .284 to .338 is such there is not a gap in between that cannot be filled by either a 160 grain .284 or a 200/185 grain 338. Add to that the fact that a 284 with 140 grain bullet will largely eliminate the need for a .270

Now the .284 I would probably go for a 7mm rem mag. So I will have something that can reach out there. The 338 in a win mag, with bigger kick for the occasional big antelope like kudu or eland.

That leaves space for one more. The one I will use most often. That being on the smaller antelope. The 7mm mag will be heavy gun. The 338 will be a heavy gun. So I want something lite and handy. So that leaves .24 .25 and .26. Of those the .25 (in 25-06) would need a 24" barrel to be sensible. So would the .243 . And besides the .243 is a bit light to be a handy, small antelope, walkabout rifle.

Which led me to .264 (in .260Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x55) , and since it is not a magnum cartridge it will not be overlapping with the the intended use of the 7mm rem mag.

So that leaves me shooting
95gr to 140gr .264
140gr to 175gr .284
180gr to 250gr .338

Thats how I figure it covers the spectrum

Just found this site... Look under species. They have recommended calibers
http://www.sahunting.co.za

While I think that this will work for SA I think It would also cover every american situation...

Please feel free to tell me where I am missing the something. that afterall is why I post this. Feel free to criticize.

So I am thinking Sako Stainless Laminated Hunter in 6.5x55 SE

Think that the 6.5x55 SE is a bit more versatile than the other two because you can seat longer bullets in the longer action and the case has a longer neck, making it better suited to longer bullets.

All three 6.5x55, .260 and 6.5Creedmoor have almost identical powder capacity.

And the Sako wieghs 7.5 pounds... Hmmm maybe a bit heavy for its use. (As it should come in at just over 8pounds scoped)
But looks a nice rifle...
I think I am looking for something in the 6.5pound range...

Maybe a Sauer 202 Classic?
http://jpsauer.us/firearms/products/model-sauer-202/

Hey Andre, get whatever you want and shoot stuff. The animals don't care and they don't get real technical about it either. Do you want to hunt or crunch a bunch of meaningless numbers on each shot? I really don't think it's either one. You're just fishing around. You're not taking any of the advice except to use it to further what you are already "Thinking" about. I did notice that even though you are taking the time to address other posters, the part in RinB's post about you "BSing" us was not properly refuted and was kinda glossed over. I'll stop and won't go over the other contradictions in your posts.

Normally, Trolling posts don't interest me much, but every once in a while there's one that looks like it might provide a minute or two of fun. We'll see!

Alan

If I am contradicting myself it is because I dont know enough. I have not decided on calibers. Just trying to explain how I see it at the moment. Exactly as my father-in -law also said to me... Lotsa people use a .270 and have no need to try something else. I think what I will do is go to gunshop. If there is a 6.5mm that draws my attention, I might well buy it. If there is a .270 that looks good I might well go for it instead.

The reason i am being so "cant think of a word"... is that as I said before. you can only own 3 guns for hunting in SA(assuming that your 4th is for self defense). Also guns in SA cost almost 3 times what they cost in america. And on top of that selling a gun in SA is really difficult. And second hand guns fetch very poor prices. So a poor choice in a rifle could turn out to be very costly...

Please point out how I am contradicting myself. Would like to understand...