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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,050 |
JB is right on the money about modifying the forearm to float the barrel. If you're gonna free-float the barrel, then FREE-FLOAT THE BARREL. Don't leave it close anywhere because the barrel will vibrate and make contact with the stock on firing. When you put that dollar bill in there to check the clearance, pinch the barrel and stock with one hand and move the dollar fore and aft with the other. If you can pinch that dollar anywhere along the forend, you have a tight spot(s) and the barrel is probably slapping the stock when the rifle is fired. Look at the way a Kimber 84M barrel is floated. There is a good gap on both sides and the bottom of the barrel all the way to the bedding. I consider that gap on the Kimbers to be absolute minimum, and some of them close up the gap on one side or the other after leaving the factory due to stock warpage (possibly from the rifle resting on it's side in the box). I know the gap is not pretty like the fine fit between stock and barrel on a pre-64 M70 or an FN Browning Safari. In fact, one of the things I hear touted as an ugly part of the post-64 M70s is the wide gap between barrel and stock on some of the earlier post-64s, but there is sound reasoning behind a good gap. The absolute worst situation is a partially free-floated barrel that slaps the stock on firing. The barrel should be absolutely free-floated, or soundly bedded in one of several manners described here, but definitely not something inbetween.
Sorry to pound on that point, but it cannot be overemphasized. That horse is kicked completely to death now and if the point isn't understood by now, it never will be.
We are good at kicking the chit out of that dead horse around here..... 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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BlackDog1,
I'd just go ahead and full-length bed the barrel. My guess is it will make far more difference than anything else suggested so far, and if there are other problems (and there may be), it will make them easier to diagnose.
One thing about full-length bedding: The channel must be bedded ALL the way to the end. Otherwise it can still dance around a little, though accuracy will still probably be a lot better than it is right now. I've rebedded the tip of the forend on a few stocks just to make sure of this.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,910
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,910 |
BlackDog1,
I'd just go ahead and full-length bed the barrel. My guess is it will make far more difference than anything else suggested so far, and if there are other problems (and there may be), it will make them easier to diagnose.
One thing about full-length bedding: The channel must be bedded ALL the way to the end. Otherwise it can still dance around a little, though accuracy will still probably be a lot better than it is right now. I've rebedded the tip of the forend on a few stocks just to make sure of this. +1.........
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,916
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Great post. Could not have come at a better time for me. I have a new Winchester model 70 7-08 Featherweight, and pretty much have been going down the exact same raod with it. Hell, you could substitute win ftw for rem mtn rfl and have same post verbatim. I am leaning hard to the full length barrel bedding now.
"Its easier to fool people......Than convince them that they have been fooled." Mark Twain
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,050
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,050 |
Great post. Could not have come at a better time for me. I have a new Winchester model 70 7-08 Featherweight, and pretty much have been going down the exact same raod with it. Hell, you could substitute win ftw for rem mtn rfl and have same post verbatim. I am leaning hard to the full length barrel bedding now. ......and I have to strongly dissagree with this post....Yours is not one of the new ones then. Every fwt I've shot, or have seen shot (at the range), have been extremely accurate....FN goes through great lengths to get these things to shoot, IE: proper bedding, freefloating the barrel, target crown, etc......You rarely hear of a poor shooting newer model 70 (made in SC by FN)....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,561
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,561 |
JB,
I'm going to full length bed the barrel first as you suggested and see what happens from there. I strongly agree that if there are any other problems it should become easier to diagnose. I only like to do one thing at a time to try to correct a problem... I feel if I was doing 2 or 3 correction/modifications at a time without shooting the rifle at each step it would be more difficult to ascertain what exactly the problem may have been if corrected. I may also be unwittingly creating a problem.
Thank you and everyone else for your help.
BD
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-
NRA Endowment Life Member
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Great post. Could not have come at a better time for me. I have a new Winchester model 70 7-08 Featherweight, and pretty much have been going down the exact same raod with it. Hell, you could substitute win ftw for rem mtn rfl and have same post verbatim. I am leaning hard to the full length barrel bedding now. ......and I have to strongly dissagree with this post....Yours is not one of the new ones then. Every fwt I've shot, or have seen shot (at the range), have been extremely accurate....FN goes through great lengths to get these things to shoot, IE: proper bedding, freefloating the barrel, target crown, etc......You rarely hear of a poor shooting newer model 70 (made in SC by FN).... Don't want to steal BlackDog1 post, but mine is a Morgan, Utah model 70. From the factory, when you tightened/loosened the forward action screw, with your fingers gripping forearm and barrel, you could feel movement.Much-o stress on the action. Bedding corrected it, but groups still aren't where I want em to be. Ain't giving up on the beast yet.
Last edited by oldotter; 06/18/12.
"Its easier to fool people......Than convince them that they have been fooled." Mark Twain
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Posts: 671
Campfire Regular
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Although bedding pressure on the barrel, only occasionally makes a gun shoot better. Rather than removing the wood putting pressure on the barrel, the first thing should be to shim the action with a couple thickness of a business card. Then if the gun shoots, remove the pressure on the barrel at the tip.
One problem I have had is the crown on a new Remington was faulty. Just another possibility to add to your list.
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Campfire Member
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I had the same problem with my Rem 700 lss in 260 and as the stock was laminated I thought by free floating the barrel and with the stabilty of the laminated wood this would solve the problem, it still shot poorly. The thing that fixed it was rebedding the barrell about one inch back from the tip of the stock into a pad of accra glass gel about a full inch long and I bedded it tight like doing the action, now it shoots right around one inch groups with my nosler partitions and will do closer to .5 moa with sierra 120 match kings seated out. Both 3 shot groups, it seems to heat up after that but for a hunting rifle that all
i ask for. I think these pencil thin barrels need some upward pressure for stability but the pressure pad put there by the factory at least in this case allowed the barrel to move a little bit from side to side thus resulting in the barrel shooting from a slightly different spot on the wood each shot. All my other remington 700's have shot better free floated but they all had thicker barrels also.
Last edited by Duckshoot; 06/18/12.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've suggested this before for detecting rather obvious bedding stresses. Install a gridded bore sighter in ones assembled rifle and note his crosshair coordinates. Leave the bore sighter installed and loosen ones tang and recoil lug screws. Recheck the boresighter. If there is any flexing of ones barrel or receiver, there should be some coordinate shifts. One can confirm by retightening the screws and checking again.
That method revealed a stressed receiver on a Weatherby Mk V 257 some years ago. I glassed the recoil lug and tang in a completely relaxed state (no screws installed or torqued down), and the rifle came around. Now with the bore sighter exercise, there is no movement what so ever as one assembles and torques the stock/action.
Also, removing the pressure point in that stock dropped point of impact about 7 inches at 100 yds. Good luck,
Last edited by 1minute; 06/19/12.
1Minute
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One other thing that I have seen many times is a bolt handle that is touching the stock. That makes for irregular lockup that can cause accuracy problems. I'm going to condense all these suggestions into a list because there are just too many good suggestions to not have recorded somewhere. Can't remember them all.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I always ask people if they are re-using mounts, I have fixed more problems by replacing used mounts than any other issue. If you eliminated that issue I didn't see you mention it in the posts.
Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.
WHO IS JOHN GALT?
LIBERTY!
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I always ask people if they are re-using mounts, I have fixed more problems by replacing used mounts than any other issue. If you eliminated that issue I didn't see you mention it in the posts. I installed new Leupold dovetail mounts from the get-go. I have removed all of the bedding that I placed into the stock including the action area, and am I'm going to neutral full length bed the barrel and the action together. After I have had an opportunity around my work schedule to re-bed it and put together some more handloads and shoot it up at the club, I'll post up my results and let you know how it worked out. I'm very determined at this point to exorcise the demons out of it, come hell or high water. BD
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Posts: 60,119 |
I am guessing that Leupold mounts are the "problem" mounts siskiyou6 is talking about. In my experience, that's the only the only mounting system where wear is a problem. They might be the most popular mount, but have a number of problems. Wear is one.
Have never had any problem with "wear" in other mounts.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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