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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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I have enjoyed reading posts on this forum for a while, but never had a reason to post until now. Just joined to see if anyone has had similar results with this combo. I honestly thought something was wrong with my chrono, but the .270 loads I shot the same day were right where they should be on the chrono. I loaded six 120 grain ttsx behind 45.9 grains of cfe 223.(Max load for 120 grain Nosler BT on Hodgdon site) Rifle is an x-bolt with a 22" barrel. On the first shot, I saw 3364 on the chrono and just thought I got bad reading. The next five were between 3310 an 3355. 3340 avg!? Five shot into about an inch and the sixth made the group 1.5". The brass had slight primer flattening, no problems with bolt lift. I am going to shoot some more when the weather cools down, but for now just wondering if anybody else has tried this combo.
Jeff
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
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I think you may have a typo...........Hodgdon list 49.5 gr as max load, not 45.9 gr.
I use it in my 223 & it's very, very good.............I'll have to try it in the 7-08.
MM
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
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Thanks, you are correct, its my dyslexia kicking ni
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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That's fast!!!....I only get 3k with RL-15. I'll have to try it too.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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Be careful with the cfe powder. I've seen posts on other forums by very avid shooters that have reached max with pressure signs BEFORE the max loads they publish. Also....high temps with the powder seems to raise heck too.
If you study this game of reloading long enough you'll find that you can reach 70-74k pressure with some brass and not show common pressure signs.
This stuff is made by the outfit in florida....I think they go by the name St Marks or something. They are the same people that brought out alliants mr4000 which was supposed to take the bigger magnums to a whole new level. It had no magic whatsoever.
Quickload thinks the fastest you can go at 65k pressure with a 120 and a 22" barrel is about 3200 fps. Even If we give you a little "magic" of about 50 fps you are still treading in the 70k pressure range.
When MR2000 came out it was THE POWDER for the 308. It had a magic factor of about 50 fps over all other powders via pressure testing equipment.
NOt trying to be a critic here.....just applying current physics as we know them.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The 120TTSX seems to generate higher pressure than the 120NBT. I load about a grain less of H4895 under the TTSX for the same velocity as my NBT load.
3300+ with a 120 of any kind in a 7-08 is HOT!
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Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
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Kraky, I dont doubt anything you said. Good idea to plug in velocity and "work backwards" to estimate pressure. I have heard of quickload but never used it. Do you know how it deals with variable parameters such as friction and gas seal, etc? Just curious. I will probably back it down .5 - 1 grain and check accuracy. Its not like I need 3340 fps for deer. hell, thats more energy than a factory 30-06 150gr load!
Jeff
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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The 120TTSX seems to generate higher pressure than the 120NBT. I load about a grain less of H4895 under the TTSX for the same velocity as my NBT load.
3300+ with a 120 of any kind in a 7-08 is HOT! You Know, its funny, some of the Barnes tsx/ttsx published max loads call for more powder than a conventional bullet of the same weight on the hodgdon site, and some call for less. I would think it would be one way or the other. Maybe bullet length comes into play. I have not quite figured out these copper bullets, but I like em!
Last edited by Slim1754; 07/04/12.
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I haven't tried CFE in my 7mm-08, but I only get about 3175 fps. with 50 gr. of Big Game and the 120 gr. TTSX and it looks a little hot in my cases. Just be careful. A word of caution; it is safer to start several grains under max and work up than starting at max. The velocity you are getting would scare me into backing down a bit. By the way, welcome to the campfire.
Last edited by lastround; 07/05/12.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The 120TTSX seems to generate higher pressure than the 120NBT. I load about a grain less of H4895 under the TTSX for the same velocity as my NBT load.
3300+ with a 120 of any kind in a 7-08 is HOT! You Know, its funny, some of the Barnes tsx/ttsx published max loads call for more powder than a conventional bullet of the same weight on the hodgdon site, and some call for less. I would think it would be one way or the other. Maybe bullet length comes into play. I have not quite figured out these copper bullets, but I like em! I use the Ballistic Tip and TTSX with the same powder charge. My chrono'd velocity is usually within 50 fps. If the pressure is much different, it certainly does not show.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I've had quickload for many years and really like it. If you love the sport of reloading and have $150 to throw at it you will not be disappointed in buying it. I used it all the time for developing loads for myself and friends. It isn't perfect but I find it far more accurate than todays watered down manuals. Heres my thoughts on you 7-08 load. I think there is a combo of reduced case capacity with your brass and heat causing that speed. Rem cases in my 308 have less capacity than win and because they are thicker they are tougher and don't show pressure as easily as win....and CERTAINLY not as ez as fed brass. If you are using rem that would be the start of the situation. CFE is not in quickloads library yet. So I use a "like" powder and have quickload adjust case capacity to match the actual chrono'd results. After doing that with RE17 which ql thinks is one of the top powders for that case....here are the results. NOw if the cfe is heat sensitive you may see a grain difference between the 95 degrees you have now and 30 d3egree hunting temps. But all things considered....this is pretty close to what I think happened in your testing. BTW...the 120 bt is an interesting bullet. I've been told they make it from the jacket of the 140bt. BUT, they use the bottom of the jacket from the 140 which is tapered. So if what I hear is right the jacket at the tip of the 120 is thick....like at the tip it would be about as thick as the jacket of the 140 at the mid section. Making the 120 a very tough bt. Others have used these on big game with surprising success. One guy even on several moose. Here's my chart on theoretical steps based on your conditions. Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Nosler BalTip 28120
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 99 44.55 2902 2244 50267 9489 95.9 1.057
-09.0 100 45.05 2936 2297 52114 9590 96.4 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 101 45.54 2970 2351 54034 9688 96.9 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
-07.0 102 46.04 3004 2405 56034 9781 97.3 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 103 46.53 3039 2460 58118 9868 97.7 0.990 ! Near Maximum !
-05.0 104 47.03 3073 2516 60289 9951 98.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 105 47.52 3107 2573 62552 10029 98.4 0.958 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.0 107 48.02 3141 2630 64918 10101 98.7 0.943 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 108 48.51 3176 2687 67384 10168 98.9 0.928 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.0 109 49.01 3210 2746 69959 10229 99.2 0.913 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 110 49.50 3244 2804 72652 10285 99.4 0.898 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 111 50.00 3278 2864 75467 10334 99.6 0.884 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 112 50.49 3312 2924 78411 10377 99.7 0.869 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 113 50.99 3347 2984 81493 10414 99.8 0.855 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 51.48 3381 3045 84725 10444 99.9 0.842 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 115 51.98 3415 3107 88112 10468 100.0 0.828 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 49.50 3383 3050 86816 9875 100.0 0.836 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 49.50 3045 2470 59832 10143 94.2 0.980 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Scott
I have kind of settled on the fact that about a grain less with a TTSX than a standard bullet. On a lot of rifles that is about 50fps, so your results kind of back up mine. In other words, if you drop back a grain on powder, I'll bet your two loads are within 10 fps. I do believe there is no magic, after loading my own for 40+ years. 3300 fps with a 7-08 with a 120 sounds too fast to me.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Interesting stuff. Thanks for that. It looks like quickload is close to hodgdons site. They say 3151 fps for a max pressure load. 200 fps magic? Just kidding. I Will Use Win. brass for the next loads and drop the charge a little and see how the brass comes out.
Jeff
Last edited by Slim1754; 07/05/12.
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If you use a handheld priming tool where you get the feel of how hard they seat I predict you will find the primers go in a little easier next time on that brass.
BTW....was the brass remington??
Rem is some tough stuff in the 308 based cartridge.
Had it been Federal those primer pockets would definately be talking to you on the seating.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,686 |
sell your 7mm-08 and build a 7mmWSM, boom you can send them super fast.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 956
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Kraky111, could you run the same QL profile but with the 120 TTSX please?
Thanks, Jason.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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for refrence, I push 120 tsx at close to 3400 with my 7mm RSAUM...with moly
3340 out of a 7mm-08? there are NO free lunches.
Last edited by mpwolf; 07/06/12.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Jason....I changed things around with case capacity to match what he was actually getting with the chrono with the intent to show how much he'd most likely have to reduce charges to get back in the normal zone.
I'd be happy to work with you on your gun as best I can with quickload.
It would be best to take it out of the forum so if you would just pm me with what powders and chrono readings you are getting with the tsx....also let me know if your gun has any amount of freebore. Again....I'm not proclaiming "exact science" but I think I can make it better than "seat of the pants"!
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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It was, in fact Remington brass. 3rd firing. neck sized. Primed them last night. Only 1 was suspect. It had some initial tension and then slipped right in. The others felt normal.
Jeff
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Noticed a couple guys here use the Nosler BT. They are on sale at Cabelas for 14.39/50 and free shippingif you have the club card
Jeff
60 percent of the time, it works every time
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