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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
I can only speak from personal experience and that is if someone I'm questioning just clams up right out of the gate, they are hiding something and it just peaks my curiosity even further. Of course. But now, you see how the question of whether you're a dirty cop or not doesn't even come up? If I talk to you, you have a choice of whether to act on what I say in bad faith or not. (Remember, folks, it's perfectly legal for cops to tell you barefaced lies, on video, about everything from one end to the other if they think it might get you to incriminate yourself. It's only illegal for you to lie to them.)But if I don't talk to you, then it doesn't matter whether you're a dirty cop or not: you can't act on what I say in bad faith, because I haven't said anything. My best friend is now an FBI agent, been doing it about 10 years since he got out of the Marine Corps. He essentially says the same thing as Barak, that if you ever get into a situation where you're detained by the police as a suspect to NOT engage them without a lawyer present. He says not to be a jerk, but any questioning should be answered with "I'll need to talk to my lawyer before I can answer that". All communication with them is a fishing expedition and they wouldn't be questioning you if they already knew the answers. He told me that 90% of the time the suspects do themselves in by talking too much. The cop might think you're guilty but that doesn't man squat, all that matters is what he can prove. Do you need counsel to answer "What's your name" "Where are you coming from" ? If yes, life's going to be expensive for you. Why would he need to answer that at all, counsel or no? I don't, and it works out fine for me.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
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I had forgotten what a lunatic Dink really is. I hadn't which is why I have him on ignore. It's so much fun to jerk his chain and have no idea of what he is saying. I'm sure glad he's not a cop in my area. Even on ignore you can't stop thinking about me. That is almost as creepy as Mannlicker checking out the guy in the gas station. Dink
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66 |
Maybe you can explain how innocent people incriminate themselves. They don't have to. A cop can wrongly believe he heard something incriminating just because his mind was bent in that direction. Why are you speaking to me again. I said I wouldn't any longer attempt reasoning with you, that having been proved futile. I didn't say I wouldn't continue to refute your errors. You can count on the latter.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6 |
Just a quick comment about the title of this thread, A Bud said we should "Mess with the Police" one night when I was a teenaged boy, I said, UHHHHH Let's not, our appreciation and need for oxygen will be appreciably longer if we dont.  he reluctantly agreed  Gunner
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
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Maybe you can explain how innocent people incriminate themselves. They don't have to. A cop can wrongly believe he heard something incriminating just because his mind was bent in that direction. Why are you speaking to me again. I said I wouldn't any longer attempt reasoning with you, that having been proved futile. I didn't say I wouldn't continue to refute your errors. You can count on the latter. I've made no errors here. I'll know not to waste my time with you in the future. This is what you said. Don't believe you're all that capable of "reasoning". You need an open, undistorted mind for that. You clearly don't have that.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66 |
I don't consider refuting errors a waste of time.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,136 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,136 Likes: 6 |
I have tried not to weigh in on this but it seems that I do not have the will power. My take is that actions have consequences. If you run, be prepared for bad schit to happen if you are caught. Do what ever you want to, but be prepared to pay whatever the price is for that particular action. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
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Let me know when you find one.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
I have tried not to weigh in on this but it seems that I do not have the will power. My take is that actions have consequences. If you run, be prepared for bad schit to happen if you are caught. Do what ever you want to, but be prepared to pay whatever the price is for that particular action. miles Sage advise.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
As I said earlier, the way folks talk [bleep] here and they way they actually behave if they have contact with LEO's, are vastly different.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
As I said earlier, the way folks talk [bleep] here and they way they actually behave if they have contact with LEO's, are vastly different. What would you do if you pulled somebody over for some minor traffic infraction and he gave you his license and registration when asked, but no matter what you said or did to him he just stared wordlessly at you? What--are you going to arrest him? You'd look like a complete idiot. Drag him out of the car and Taser him until he talks to you? Even worse. I've had several cops make a few attempts at getting a response, then shrug and attend to business with no further interruptions. One of them got a drug dog and ran it around my car. One little scrawny guy worked himself up into a real lather until he was nose to nose with me (well, nose to chest, anyway) with his Taser out, blowing spit up into my face and screaming, "You got a problem with me? Huh? Huh? You got a problem, you son of a bitch?" until his partner pulled him aside and calmed him down. One cop came to my house asking for permission to take photos of my truck to prove that it had been involved in a hit-and-run incident the previous day (it hadn't). I just stared at him without answering, and after making some pretty dire but empty threats he gave up and went out to the end of the driveway and took his pictures from there while I recorded video on my cell phone from the porch. Another saw me land a plane after dark at an unattended airport (absolutely routine, but he apparently didn't know that) and came roaring up as I was offloading stuff from the plane into my car (harmless stuff) and hollered that I wasn't allowed to be on airport property after hours. (Utter bullcrap.) I glanced at him once, then continued loading my car and putting the plane to bed, ignoring him. He hollered at me a few more times, then got back in his cruiser and started talking on the radio. When I got the plane tied down and locked up, I just drove away; he didn't follow. I'll grant you that it can be tough to find the courage to keep shut when a big scary cop, laden down with all sorts of weapons, demands answers in his best "command voice," and maybe tougher to fight down the ego that tries to force a response when he tells you what you did and is completely wrong. But after you manage it the first time and see the pickle it puts him in, and how much control it gives you over what he can do, as opposed to him having the control over what he will do...all of a sudden it's nowhere near as scary or difficult anymore. Matter of fact, with the spit-blower guy I had to consciously resist laughing: he was so impotently furious he was pretty funny. Reminded me of Joe Pesci a little. I have a hunch you and DINK might end up the same way he did.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
As I said earlier, the way folks talk [bleep] here and they way they actually behave if they have contact with LEO's, are vastly different. What would you do if you pulled somebody over for some minor traffic infraction and he gave you his license and registration when asked, but no matter what you said or did to him he just stared wordlessly at you? What--are you going to arrest him? You'd look like a complete idiot. Drag him out of the car and Taser him until he talks to you? Even worse. I've had several cops make a few attempts at getting a response, then shrug and attend to business with no further interruptions. One of them got a drug dog and ran it around my car. One little scrawny guy worked himself up into a real lather until he was nose to nose with me (well, nose to chest, anyway) with his Taser out, blowing spit up into my face and screaming, "You got a problem with me? Huh? Huh? You got a problem, you son of a bitch?" until his partner pulled him aside and calmed him down. One cop came to my house asking for permission to take photos of my truck to prove that it had been involved in a hit-and-run incident the previous day (it hadn't). I just stared at him without answering, and after making some pretty dire but empty threats he gave up and went out to the end of the driveway and took his pictures from there while I recorded video on my cell phone from the porch. Another saw me land a plane after dark at an unattended airport (absolutely routine, but he apparently didn't know that) and came roaring up as I was offloading stuff from the plane into my car (harmless stuff) and hollered that I wasn't allowed to be on airport property after hours. (Utter bullcrap.) I glanced at him once, then continued loading my car and putting the plane to bed, ignoring him. He hollered at me a few more times, then got back in his cruiser and started talking on the radio. When I got the plane tied down and locked up, I just drove away; he didn't follow. I'll grant you that it can be tough to find the courage to keep shut when a big scary cop, laden down with all sorts of weapons, demands answers in his best "command voice," and maybe tougher to fight down the ego that tries to force a response when he tells you what you did and is completely wrong. But after you manage it the first time and see the pickle it puts him in, and how much control it gives you over what he can do, as opposed to him having the control over what he will do...all of a sudden it's nowhere near as scary or difficult anymore. Matter of fact, with the spit-blower guy I had to consciously resist laughing: he was so impotently furious he was pretty funny. Reminded me of Joe Pesci a little. I have a hunch you and DINK might end up the same way he did. Great stories. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66 |
I love it. Great stuff. Good on you.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,800 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,800 Likes: 4 |
A quick post (against my better judgement) and I'll let y'all continue with regularly scheduled banter:
When I ask a person if they're aware of the speed limit and/or why they're speeding I'm trying to give them an "out". I know how fast they were going and I know what the acceptable range of speed is. I'm giving the operator a chance to make both our lives easier by not writing the ticket. If the operator wants to stare at me blankly and hand me his licence....
For the "don't talk to the police crowd", do what you will. Again, if I ask to speak to you in regards to "x" I already have the answer 99.9% of the time (don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to). Again, I'm often looking to give the individual a way out. For example, I attempted to make contact with a young lady last night. My new guy has her cold on a fairly serious DV charge. Based on the information available right now, my guy should be burning warrants. If she speaks to us and tells me what I think she's going to, I can justify going to my boss (and the CA's office) and possibly argue against arrest. If she wants to avoid me and/or "not speak to the police"........
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
I appreciate your position, but I gave up on the possibility of not getting a ticket ages and ages ago when (unbeknownst to me) the escaped felon was using my SSN and every contact with the government--not just the police--wound up involving not only tickets but guns and handcuffs.
Penny gets warnings. I don't get warnings.
I'd much rather not get warnings than get some of the other things cops can do to you if you talk.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,800 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,800 Likes: 4 |
Yeah, I can do a lot with "I'm late for work" or "I was thinking about X and wasn't paying attention".
What about the young lady in question? Speak to the police and potentially avoid arrest and an easy conviction for a pair of Class A Misdemeanors, or keep her mouth shut and wind up, at a minimum, in jail for the weekend until she can be arraigned on Monday and then face the above?
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Oh--I also don't speed, in case it makes a difference. I do frequently forget to renew my registration.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,102 Likes: 66 |
A quick post (against my better judgement) and I'll let y'all continue with regularly scheduled banter:
When I ask a person if they're aware of the speed limit and/or why they're speeding I'm trying to give them an "out". I know how fast they were going and I know what the acceptable range of speed is. I'm giving the operator a chance to make both our lives easier by not writing the ticket. If the operator wants to stare at me blankly and hand me his licence....
For the "don't talk to the police crowd", do what you will. Again, if I ask to speak to you in regards to "x" I already have the answer 99.9% of the time (don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to). Again, I'm often looking to give the individual a way out. For example, I attempted to make contact with a young lady last night. My new guy has her cold on a fairly serious DV charge. Based on the information available right now, my guy should be burning warrants. If she speaks to us and tells me what I think she's going to, I can justify going to my boss (and the CA's office) and possibly argue against arrest. If she wants to avoid me and/or "not speak to the police"........
George Yes, but you're not a mere mortal. You're an angelic being in a policeman's uniform, merely taking the apparent form of flesh and blood. Most cops are mere mortals, subject to normal human frailties in the context of power.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Maybe if I lived in your AO I'd look at things a little differently.
But I don't, and I've only ever met one cop who had any interest at all in making things easier on me. He was the guy who told me, after giving me a ticket, that the reason there were always guns and handcuffs was that an escaped felon had stolen my identity. Old cop, white hair, smile, walked with a limp. Years back. Modern cops around here are not like that anymore.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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