Bringin the Mail on a quad...

That sucker is crazy.

That's b/c the cop probably looked like this:

Dude was NOT afraid to get into that throttle!

Almost came off the seat at one point.

As soon as he turned onto the two track through the woods, she should've saved herself the embarrassment. If she couldn't catch him on pavement, she didn't have a prayer on the dirt....

yet another pretty much unwarranted high speed pursuit. The quad was not causing any problem to start with.

It appears the rider had an advantage in the power to weight. The rider was able to accelerate away at will.

Yea, good he didn't hit a kid on a bike. I guess they could hear the siren. A nice sized dog could have really messed up his day, though.

Me and several buds were cuttin down the highway in between two large WestVaCo tracts. The Billy Bob deputies were on a crusade to score themselves some wheelers for their auctions. The word was they would "confiscate" any ORV on pavement. We rounded a curve, there was the fuzz comin the other way. [bleep] them, we took the ditch and tore out through the pines.

I think it was bullsh!t anyway, just for riding down the edge of the road.


You guys got it made out west, I passed several 4wheelers in Kanab. Heck they ride through town, pull into the gas pumps, grocery store.

Don't know why the law are such bitches in the south about these type things.

Being chased by the police while riding an atv/dirt bike/snowmobile. That's Pure Michigan right there. They need to use that in Michigan's next tourism campaign.

WTF was that all about anyway? That was in Roscommon Co. Michigan and drifting up into Crawford Co. That area is huge for ATV riders and in the wintertime I think the snowmobiles outnumber cars on the road 2 to 1.

Stopid cop... go woodtick!

In Mississippi it's not illegal to ride an ATV on a public road. I don't know about Michigan. There really was no reason to pursue that guy to begin with.

In Micit depends on which county you're in. I just gotta believe that with all the ATV trail heads in that general area that it's probably legal there,too.

Maybe the guy was speeding? Lucky for him he finally found a seasonal road. Lots of those around that area.

Poor judgement by the Cop. Even if the Quad was stolen there was no justification to put the public at risk with the high speed chase.

So, the cop showed poor judgement by chasing the offender, but no comments as to HIS judgement by speeding, blowing stop signs, traveling in the oncoming lane of traffic on curves, etc... which apparently, by your logic, did not put the public at risk?

Interesting train of thought...

Chris

Chicks can't drive.

That was fun. I assume the lady cop wrote herself out a ticket for operating a radio while driving.

Yep. The whole time I was saying that as soon as he finds a trail the chase is over. I guess he knew where one was.

I was thinking the same thing.

Only issue could have been the quad didn't have a license plate...

Exactly.

had the copette not foolishly gone after the quad, then none of the high speed crap would have happened at all. Guess that escapes your logic, eh? She was the person that was putting the public at risk, including the poor guy on the quad.

then why did'nt he stop? if he stops the chase is over

She maintained a safe distance throughout the incident, best I could tell anyway.

A few more laws should solve the problem.

Nearly anything can be justified by the nanny staters in the name of "Public Safety". If you're against new laws, you must hate children & want complete anarchy!

As a one time owner of a highly modified Banshee - I'm surprised the cop kept up as well as she did.

I've ridden a lot of things with engines and that Banshee was the only one I was really scared about. It would pull the front tires off the ground as you shifted every gear. Even 6.

Too bad the guy didn't become a quad despite his best efforts. More proof there's no shortage of morons in our country.

A retard here stole a car, ran from the cops, and killed another driver. I hope they euthanize him in Huntsville.

Exactly. It was the dummy on the quad putting people at risk. Not the other way around

You oughta ride a 700 Raptor. Holly cow !!!!!!!!!

So..... What is the top speed of a quad anyway..... For factory and then the um, modified versions?

Have - didn't scare me like that Banshee did. Wound up a GSXR quite a bit - not as scary as that Banshee.

It was just stupid fast. My cousin had a pretty quick Blaster (200 cc 2-stroke), he was topped out in 5th and I passed him shifting to 3rd - 3 more gears to go.

Eventually I threw a lower rod bearing WFO in 3rd which caused some pain as I went over the bars.

Stock they're in the 60-70 mph range I guess. Dunno for sure.

I know mine pushed triple digits and beyond with the gearing I had.

I can see some logic to both sides of this argument, and we don't have the whole story as to why it all happened, but I will never agree to see how you can say "the poor guy on the quad".

Maybe she didn't need to chase him (debatable), maybe he wasn't doing anything wrong to begin with (debatable), but as soon as he leaned in to that throttle and starting going evasive, he lost the "poor guy" status, instantly. At that point, he becomes the aggressor, and responsible for what happens. HE was putting HIMSELF, and others, at risk.

Agree.

Wow, and you lived to tell about it.....

Hardest part of that quad was getting traction. On concrete or very hard pack/loose gravel - it wasn't so bad. It would hit the powerband and the tires simply would spin.

In good dirt where you can get traction across the power - it was everything to keep clean shorts on....

Sorry, but you are correct, this "logic" completely escapes me! I will assume I missed the part in the video where someone forced the offender to flee against his better judgement. Otherwise, it would have been his decision alone to evade the police and jeopardize the public by flagrantly violating numerous traffic laws.

Since I don't know why the officer was pursuing the quad, I really can't make an informed, educated opinion as to whether the pursuit was justified. I did note that her chain of command (via her dispatcher) authorized her to continue the pursuit, so maybe they were aware of circumstances not evident in the video.

"Poor guy on the quad" my azz...

Chris

Didn't want to be messed with and charged protection money by the local mob. Not really that complicated when you look at it objectively.

Maybe you can loan her a GPS...

AJ300MAG said: "Only issue could have been the quad didn't have a license plate..."
.
I agree but I feel the same way about bicycles that tend to hold up traffic, too. No license, no insurance and they pay no taxes to use that road!
.
I sure thought the police car could have caught the quad on the pavement easier than that showed, though. Kind of surprised me but then that was no fat ass like me riding the quad!!

But what was she going to do if she caught up with him on the pavement? Execute him?

Michigan LEOs are tough on unlicensed ORVs running on public roads...

you sir are a real piece of work. i take it the are no laws to follow in hawkeyeville and everyone is friendly and merry.

The word "objectively" is his problem, or else he lives in a really bad place where objectivity is extremely skewed.

Were you dropped on your head when you were a kid or something ?

Been there done that. Them bikes under the right conditions can out run the police.

Yup,here in Montana ATV's and UTV's can be made street legal for about $200.00.

My first response would have been why are you chasing? Absent a damn good reason my next response would have been terminate chase.

Unregistered/uninsured vehicle speeding on a public thoroughfare.....open and shut case.
Copper was doing his job.

The part I do not get is the number of dills on this forum that are willing to ignore tossers doing unlawful, dangerous, stupid things just so that they can fnck over the cops.
I wonder how permissive you lot would be if that same tosser skittled your wee little Grand-daughter?

Personally, I do not have a problem with coppers shooting dangerous tossers...over there, or over here.

ahhhh, an Australian, eh?

I made it a point never to chase someone I couldn't catch...and to make'em wish they hadn't once I caught'em.

Had a family member, 1st cousin, run from the cops one night. He died in a wreck. His Dad was upset. Me being a cop, I could only listen to the bullcrap so long. Someone runs for no reason, they are simply morons. If they have a reason to run...they are double morons.

Cops aren't beyond reproach, but the person who runs, bears the responsibility for what happens.

Dan

Holy mackerel..

Sure wish more in LE (AND lawmakers)had this perspective.

Yep, so you can read....now grow a brain and see if you can begin to comprehend.

What I meant by that word in that context was to look at it form the perspective of someone who was born totally at liberty, who wasn't messed with so long as he wasn't harming anyone. Put that person in this context and then try to see how he'd perceive being chased by a cop so the cop can oblige him to make a payment of several hundred dollars to her gang under penalty of her gang kidnapping him and tossing him in a prison cell, or worse should he resist. That's seeing it objectively. A biased view (good or bad) would be the one we're all taught in civics class, i.e., look to the greater good of everyone needing to abide by rules, and punishments applied to those who don't abide by them. See, that's not the objective perspective. That's the perspective that's biased towards what we've all been indoctrinated into since childhood.

60-70 doesn't sound too fast to somebody used to doing it in the safety of a car, or even a street bike, but on a quad? And faster??

I have been to just past 90 in a boat. It's a WHOLE different experience than doing 90 in a car on a smooth highway!

I'm imagining that it would be the same pucker factor on a quad!

Hear me out. Let's say she caught up with him, but he still wasn't pulling over. What was she going to do then?

Capsicum spray or taser at 60mph should just about solve the problem.

Which would amount to an execution, which was my point.

you have no point or a clue, cuz your blinded by your rose colored glasses

No, that would amount to suicide....your point is moot.

Would've made for a much more dramatic ending to the video, that's for sure!

Actually, no. The tasering, or whatever, in your scenario would have been the last proximate cause of death, since had it not occurred, neither would death.

After all these years....you are still coming out with the same old crap.

Do you suffer from dementia or are you just plain straight out bloody stupid.

I'm not advocating a society without rules. But in order to understand why he ran, you only need to look at the situation objectively. He ran because he didn't want to be punished for violating a societal rule. It's as simple as that. There are some here who seem perplexed by that.

Play nice, now, Stuart.

which is against the law. two wrongs don't make it right. he would be the only person to blame if something tragic happened.

To you that would be Mister Stuart.

No doubt. That is some beautiful country right there; seeing it on the speedy end of a cop chase has GOT to draw in some dollars !

Not officer Stuart? I'm surprised.

There is not enough tea in China for me to take a miserable job like that on.
The coppers get f ed over by their own LAC's more often than they get it from the public, pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Idiot. Saw some young scuz that wanted to drive fast and loose without being chased T-bone a car at an intersection, killing the operator of the struck car. Get this stariaght,if that quad driver wanted to drive fast and all he risked was creaming himself on a tree, I could not care less. Refer to my opening comment. Jackass.

It appears as if the chase ensued because the 4-wheeler was on a public road, and most likely that violated local laws. Therefore the cop was absolutely justified in going after the offender because that is their duty.

However, once the pursuit reached the obviously high speeds that it did the pursuit should have been abandoned becasue it was too dangerous to continue. Yes, the ATV rider was breaking the law, and if an accident had occured during the high speed pursuit it would have been the riders fault. However, at some point we must look at the risks associated with the potential rewards. The reward in this case DOES NOT justify the risks!

I'm certain that the ATV rider began to drive faster and much more recklessly once he was pursued than before, which means the risk for an innocent person being injured or killed incresed substantially once the pursuit began, which also means that this risk would have lessened once the pursuit ended.

This guy was riding an unlicensed vehicle on a public thoroughfare for goodness sake! It was not as if he was a serial killer or anything!

Agreed. It's a hard job. Try teaching a class full of high school students, though.

You ain't lyin'.


Travis

All good points. Additionally, being a female cop, she was likely overcompensating.

And to the Aussie who condones tazering or spraying this dude and calling it suicide, well, I don't know how things are done in Australia, but here in the United States we decided long ago to not allow our government to have that degree of power over us.

This is where our society is headed. Bunch of puzzies.


Travis

My heart bleeds for you, it must be really terrible to be stuck on the taxpayers tit.

Another puzzy attitude.


Travis

Mmmph....you are kidding me....right?

First cop I ever outran was on a KX80. And it was a piece of cake.


Travis

And cops aren't?

Your point?

Why didn't you pull over when lawfully ordered to do so?

I can't think of a department or agency that doesn't have that policy.


Travis

its pure horseshit to say that whatever happens as a result of the offender running from the law is his responsibility.

Too many scenarios where the public would be in danger by a high speed chase where the original crime being broken is meaningless.

not to mention that letting that rider go would just mean he'd could probably be caught again next week riding down the same road.

another aspect of that situation is if the officer made the decision to continue the chase on the dirt roads, lost control of the car and smacked into a tree, the rider would be held responsible for the policemen's poor judgement if he were to be caught. A policeman loses control of his car chasing a kid and the kid gets hit with manslaughter.

Because I feared my father more than the cop.


Travis

Unless of course he's a rapist fleeing to Mexico. But [bleep] it guys, let's just let them go.

More pussification.



Travis

Cool, so by your reckoning I should just let go any miscreant who breaks into my house at night and prowls around my wife and daughter whilst they sleep, just in case they decide to run and end up twisting their ankle.

No...I think I shall just go with my system.

No I am not kidding you!!! Cops DO NOT have the right to do whatever they want to do in the name of supporting the law. I know some good cops, and to a man I guarantee that they would not support this.

There is a great liklihood that this rider was of a young age, perhaps 16 or so. Imagine this was your kid, and he was tazered and then died from the crash that ensued for being tazered. How would you feel? Would you have thought your kid deserved what they got? Of course you wouldn't!

Again, the ATV rider was wrong, but as the trained professional in this situation the cop should have called off the chase. It simply wasn't worth it.

so now we've gone from quad riding kid to rapist or miscreant breaking into your house.

yea, I can see a rapist deciding the best way to flee the law is to jump on a quad, ride down the road and head for Mexico.

and this wasn't night, it wasn't in your home

this is the problem with LEOs - they have to make up this scenario of every citizen who is breaking some minor law as a potential Pablo Escobar just within their grasp which justifies endangering the public to apprehend the criminal mastermind.

You convinced me. When a guy flees, just let them run. Good policy.

Your campaign slogan should read "EVERYBODY GETS A VAGINA IN 2012!"


Travis

I do know how I would feel if some low-life piece of filth ran my Daughter over whilst he was joy riding....and as for the filth dying, so what.....it not like they are rare, after all they still make them.

nasty little poofter, arn't ya?

Hey, I have a question for the vagina brigade:

If a vehicle is suspected to be full of illegal immigrants should that vehicle be pursued?

Thanks in advance,
Travis

Uumm....I am not a law enforcement officer.

The original video would be one.. I doubt it's as rare as you think.

Of course the problem starts with the nanny staters making thousands of laws, but somewhere, at some point, common sense needs to be exercised on the enforcement side. This particular case is just one shining example. The ultimate solution is to stop voting in city council members who have never heard of a revenue inducing law they wouldn't support. "For the children.."

Heh heh....you sure your not an Aussie pretending to be a bloody yank.

You sneaky prick!

lets add - thru your neighborhood with your kids on bikes riding around and your wife out walking the dog

Ok.


Travis

Sure. Let's add that.

Can you answer now? Or do you need another caveat?


Travis

I can answer it easily

the answer is no.

Out of curiousity, just exactly what did the perp do that was so wrong or so dangerous prior to the pursuit beginning other than riding an ATV on a public thoroughfare? Nice to know that anyone who breaks a traffic law is filth.

Um, this is the bit I found amusing " ....to not allow our government to have that degree of power over us".

Oh, I think that had he run over your family member you would be somewhat less understanding about his boyish prank.

Of course not.


Travis

You still just let them go.

Always let them go. These guys convinced me. I'm actually having my testicles removed this afternoon. Just made the appointment.


Travis

I'd be just as pissed if a LEO t-boned a family member in an intersection chasing a kid on a quad.

I'm always amused by the "get tough on crime" crowd, that blames bleeding heart liberals for being soft on crime, that then says "Just let them go, they aren't hurting anything".

I liken this to training criminals that if you just run, we'll let you go on doing what you're doing.

you seem to really be focused on genitalia

As amusing as this has been fellas, I have to go to bed as I need to go to work in the morning.

Goodnight.

I'd be pissed at the kid for running in the first place.

Without that, there is no chase.

The cops don't go careening down the road alone because they're bored and want practice. They do it because somebody is running.

Put the blame in those cases where it belongs.

Good thing that dick head on the quad can't hurt anything. Just let him go.


Travis

What would your reaction be if the rider ran past the cop, the cop did nothing about it, and the kid then t-boned somebody all by himself?

I bet you'd be SCREAMING that the cop could've prevented it if they had acted instead of ignored.

umm, can you go down to your local walmart (if you have those) and buy a Bushmaster and be back to work before your lunch break is over?

I can.

Who isn't?


Travis

Godddamnit ColdBore! You just let them go man! That's the type of thinking that got our great nation where it is today! Just let them go!


Travis

The dickhead on the unlicensed/unregistered quad probably had no license/suspended, outstanding warrants, drugs/alcohol in his system, so he didn't want to talk the police.

Grab a cube of Budweiser too please. Thanks.



Travis

Negative. That is presumptive.

You simply let them go. Illegals. Terrorists. Doesn't matter. If they flee, you let them go.


Travis

I think the powers in charge should issue that gal cop a hot quad and let her REALLY enjoy the next chase. Need to get everything on equal footing here.

I am. Its a case of proportional response. Are illegal immigrants driving thru my neighborhood a threat to my family? Is a kid riding a quad down the road?

No - and I have no problem with the police pulling a kid over for it, or stopping the illegals and questioning them. But I do have a problem when the police decide that a high speed chase thru heavy traffic or populated neighborhoods is an appropriate response.

If this person is a habitual criminal (even in this case the law being broken is driving a quad down the road) you'll get your chance another day and you won't endanger the public. If he/she never breaks the law again because of the threat of police presence, then the public is served either way.

Now, if the quad rider was fleeing the scene of a serious crime, like a hit and run or maybe the carload of illegals were suspected of doing a drive by shooting as reported to the police, well now the rules of proportional response have changed.

But I'm going to be honest, I believe about 70% of the police chases in this type of situation we're talking about is driven by the cop enjoying the adrenaline rush of a high speed chase just to break up an otherwise tedious day. Combine that with the ego thing of not letting the "criminal" win and I think they lose perspective.

That cop knew her territory, knows the idiots who hang around, and within a short time will know who was riding, because he be out riding again and will brag about it at the local bar.

see the Pablo Escobar example earlier.

exactly - given all the more reason to call off the chase and catch him being a dumbass later on.

Times changed BigBuck. We just let everybody go now.

The Prius will be the new Crown Vic.


Travis

Dang!!

Somehow that just ain't right!

Catch him being a dumb ass later on?

Will he devolve to being a dumb ass at slower speeds later on? Or are we going to pursue him later on? How exactly does one plan to apprehend an unknown suspect "later on"?


Travis

I know you're generation would have ran that [bleep] off the road, and beat him with a PR-24, but our generation decided he will be just fine and dandy the way he is.

Are you proud of us?


Travis

Of course I would be upset had the ATV rider run a family member over. I would feel that way if this occured when he was just joyriding, or if it occurred during the high speed pursuit. However, the chance of this occuring would have been greater during the highspeed pursuit than during the time he was just "joyriding," which is why the cop should have ended the pursuit.....to lessen the danger my family memebers were under.

Have you actually read what I've written?

At no point did I say the ATV rider was not breaking the law. At no point did I say he was not wrong. At no point did I say the cop should not have started a pursuit of the ATV rider. At no point did I say the ATV rider would not be the responsible party if an accident occured during the pursuit and an innocent bystander was injured/killed. In fact I have said just the opposite of this.

You can twist this into something else but the facts don't change. We don't know what the ATV rider did other than driving his ATV on a public road. This "joyriding" as you call it is not in itself a huge risk to your daughter if she were walking down the sidewalk. Some yes, but not huge. That's really all we know. However, I'll concede that the ATV rider was most likely speeding, which would increase the risk your daughter was under while walking down the sidewalk.

However, the risk your daughter was under increased dramatically once the pursuit began with such high speeds. Her risk of being injured or dying increased substantially once the pursuit reached the levels it did. This is the point I, and others, have been making. Yes, the ATV rider would be the responsible party, but your daughter would be just as dead. It is this increased risk that your daughter was placed under once the pursuit reached high speeds that the cop should have recognized, and as a result is the reason why the cop should have disengaged herself from the pursuit. Risk versus potential reward.

so your assumption is he drives ass over tea kettle, thru ditches and wide open down the road when cops aren't chasing him?

I mean there is a video. Bike make, color, size, helmet color, height, weight, race of driver, location

you know there is more to actual police work than assuming everyone is a rapist fleeing to mexico and running them over with your car.

and I bet some of the people actually doing that other kind of police work have a penis as well.

I'm not assuming anything, Columbo. Sounds like you got it all figured out.

Run down that VIN and find who the RO is. Chop! Chop!


Travis

And stop talking about penises.


Travis

What part of "I don't know where I'm at" did you not hear? Couldn't tell if she was a local or MSP. Didn't sound like the Crawford County Sheriff was too interested in joining her. That's all you need, two stupid leos racing down rural roads.

All of it, as I didn't watch the whole video, but that explains a lot.

well, this interesting thread has morphed into the usual 'I'm a cop, so I defend cops' crap.

So what's your point then ? Eliminate the "rules" ?

See above: "I'm not advocating a society without rules." Just explaining why he didn't stop.

Yep.

just trying to speak your language

Erroneous. I was discussing who does, and does not have a vagina.



Travis

I was in lots and lots of chases with ORV's in the same general area that is depicted in the video. I also chose not to chase lots and lots of ORV's due to various safety factors during that time. I wound up catching the offender about 25% of the time. The unusual thing about this chase was how long the rider chose to stay on the pavement before taking it off road. I think he was having fun.

It is illegal everywhere in Michigan to ride an ATV on the main travelled portion of the roadway. Counties can declare the shoulder and right-of-way open for ATV's. The deal was, if you never chased anybody, nobody would stop for you. If you did chase and caught people now and then, the word would get around and most people would stop when you tried to pull them over.

I wouldn't chase kids and wouldn't chase in a densely populated area or on roads that had blind curves or other similar hazards. The chase in the video was much longer than a typical chase but not particularly dangerous due to the open roads, low traffic, and the fact that the officer didn't crowd the ATV while the chase was in progress.

Nobody got hurt in any chase I was involved in. Normally the chase was won or lost in the first half mile or so and backing off never made us feel bad.

One time I chased a dirt bike for a short distance, until the rider left the pavement and disappeared into the woods. I got out of my car and couldn't hear him. Then I saw him running through the woods on foot and noticed that he had tried to hide his bike in a brush pile...he was kind enough to leave the key in the ignition, so I wound up chasing him down on his own bike.

LOL

Very well. Now my question is still unanswered. If no one wants to stop, pull over, get arrested etc what are you proposing the cops do ?

How the [bleep] do you know why he didn't stop?

He has multiple degrees in psychology too.

That was mean!!!!

I do not know what the Roscommon County SO policy is on High Speep persuit but I do know of at least 2 small municipal agencys here in Michigan that have a policy of "no persuit over the speed limit".

Holly [bleep] that is funny.

He didn't stop because he didn't want robo-bitch hooking up to his quad and tossing it into the back of a wrecker...

That's hilarious.

I remember when we were kids thinking 'Just gotta make it this next trail!'

Which was dumber than hell because the Deputy's were always cool anyway.

Travis

I know for certain that in Keewatin, MN, in the mid 80s, If the young man would have dumped his machine and not been hurt, he would have gotten a ticket for fleeing a peace officer on a motor vehicle.

Then the officer would have sent him home on his machine and called his mother and told her that her son was on his way home. (she would be waiting in the driveway hands on hips)

Later the court would have issued him a drivers license number just to revoke it(if the rider was too young to have a DL.) and given him 100 hours of community service (which was fine cause I, oops he, wasnt getting any where near his wheeler for the rest of that summer.

It would depend, I think. If the cop has a high degree of certainty that the fleeing person is a violent felon, it might be justified to engage in a high speed chase. Short of that, not. In the latter case, the cop should merely observe and record in order to assist the department in their efforts to identify and cite or arrest the individual at a later time.

It's my best guess based on my understanding of human nature.

That sounds impressive. Multiple degrees.

JFC...



Travis

Still haven't answered my question. If you can't/won't answer why respond.

Look up above, directly above your last sentence in this box. That's right. Now read.

I got it now. You can't answer it. Thank you.

I very clearly and straightforwardly answered your question. What part of it is confusing you?

You're dismissed.

Put me down on the side of The_Real_Hawkeye and KFWA, but with a nod to whoever the guy was who noted that it didn't look like the girl cop did anything particularly dangerous during the chase.

I was rootin' for the guy on the quad, and might have done the same thing had I the expertise and the ability. Would have gone off-road sooner, though, I think. I imagine you don't really need that much of a trail with one of those things, as long as you know the country well enough not to get blocked by a fence, and as long as you can get out of easy pistol range before the cop can get stopped and out of the car.

Boy, you really threw us all for a loop on that one.

Pistol range? How many cops have you out ran that resulted in getting shot at?


Travis

I made that observation and I'm sticking to it. She didn't appear to be putting anyone at risk and was in complete control during that incident.



.

As long as we're making schit up, he was a meth head illegal rapist who just murdered a family of Quakers. Is it ok to pursue now?

How about this, ok, no pursuit. If the tard damages property, he's responsible for full restitution and some jail time and surrenders his DL and vehicle. If there is a fatality he gets life in prison, no parole, no second shot. Automatic, no plea bargain available.

Funniest outcome would have been to see that guy go face on into a tree.

According to Hawkeye, only "violent felons" "might" be ok to pursue.

I'll know not to waste my time with you in the future.

Wsa thinking along those lines myself.

Other than life without parole it works for me...

I found this and it seems that it is legal in Roscommon county to drive an ORV on County Roads. It is possable that the cop clocked the ORV speeding which led to the chase.

STATE OF MICHIGAN
COUNTY OF ROSCOMMON
ORV ORDINANCE
AMENDED ORDINANCE No. 4
An ordinance adopted for the purpose of authorizing and regulating the operation of Off Road Vehicles (ORVs) on roads and streets in Roscommon County, for the purpose of providing penalties for the violation thereof, and for the distribution of public funds
resulting from those penalties pursuant to 2008 PA 240, MCL 324.81131.
THE COUNTY OF ROSCOMMON ORDAINS:
Sec. 1 As used in this ordinance, the following definitions shall apply:
a) "County" means the County of Roscommon.
b) "Driver license" means an operator's or chauffeur's license or permit issued to an individual by the secretary of state under chapter III of the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.301 to 257.329, for that individual to operate a vehicle, whether
or not conditions are attached to the license or permit.
c) "Local unit of government" means a county, township or municipality.
d) "Municipality" means a city or village.
e) "Operate" means to ride in or on, and be in actual physical control of the operation of an ORV.
f) "Operator" means a person who operates or is in actual physical control of the operation of an ORV.
g) "ORV" means a motor driven vehicle capable of cross-country travel without benefit of a road or trail, on or immediately over land, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, or other natural terrain. ORV or vehicle includes, but is not limited to, a multitrack or
multiwheel drive vehicle, an ATV, a motorcycle or related 2-wheel, 3-wheel, or 4-wheel vehicle, an amphibious machine, a ground effect air cushion vehicle, or other means of transportation deriving motive power from a source other than muscle or wind.
h) "Road" means a county primary road or county local road as described in section 5 of 1951 PA 51, MCL 247.655.
i) "Road Commission" means the Board of Road Commissioners for the County of Roscommon.
j) "Safety certificate means a certificate issued pursuant to 1994 PA 451 as amended, PA 324.81129, or a comparable ORV safety certificate issued under the authority of another state or a province of Canada."
k) "Street" means a city or village major street or city or village local street as described in section 9 of 1951 PA 51, MCL 247.659.
l) "Township" means an individual township within the County of Roscommon.
m) "Township Board" means a board of supervisors of any township within the County of Roscommon.
n) "Visual supervision" means the direct observation of the operator with the unaided or normally corrected eye, where the observer is able to come to the immediate aid of the operator.
Sec. 2 An ORV may be operated on the far right of the maintained portion of a road or street within the county.

Between the mental gymnastics, strawmen and red herrings, somebody's gonna pull a fish smelling, yellow hammie.

Should the cop have killed you?

Or that she was specifically sitting there waiting for him, based on reported recent activities?

She seemed ready to move quickly, and he immediately took to running.

Naahhh, couldn't be...

"He's such a niiiiice boy", says his mother from the porch to the TV cameras...

I was really disappointed

the sister-banging Tn dna in me kept waiting for a BRIDGE OUT sign and a
freeze frame of an airborne cop car with a Waylon Jennings voice over



youtube-
you fail


btw

what the heyall is a "tosser" ?

No way?!?

You should've been rooting for the cop, so that she could've tossed Speed Racer in the joint, and you could have another one to "rehabilitate"...

Assuming of course that she missed with an entire high capacity mag of hollowpoints to his back...

Laughin'... Yes Hawkeye, the cop should have killed me. No question.

You seem to have had an extra cup of stupid with breakfast this morning, so I'll break it down for you.

-Cop see law broken.

-Cop have probable cause to make lawful stop.

-Bad guy no want cop catch him.

-Bad guy run. Cop chase.

Watch a [bleep] cop movie some time. It's really not complicated.


Travis

Experience has taught me that there's no telling what a cop will do, especially if you don't know the context under which he's operating. So since you can't control what a cop will do, the objective is to have as much control as possible over what he can do. If he can shoot you through the trees, then he might choose to or he might choose not to. If he can't shoot you through the trees, then it doesn't matter what he chooses.

It's the same logic that makes it a good idea not to talk to cops, even if you think you're clean.

I imagine all that probably goes double for girl cops.

Very poor advise to give folks that aren't guilty of something, high/drunk, mentally unstable or just to stupid to have a simple dialog.

Ok, I assumed you were using your imagination. Just wanted to make sure.


Travis

It's like going to recruit school all over again, the things you learn on here...

i can't wait to get back to work. i want to chase some mutha flocker down so i can just shoot them to feed my " COP " mentality so the browneye can prove he's right.

Give him his full money's worth.

Shoot the guilty scumbag in the back, running through the trees.

You want to talk to cops? Be my guest: I wouldn't dream of arguing that you do otherwise.

Not me, though.

No question Barak you'd be better served by exercising silence.

Deleted..............wrong thread.

MM

Yeah, just stepped away & posted it on the wrong one............my bad.

MM

Not to worry. Once the skies are filled with armed drones police chases will be ancient history...

We have two on order.

DINK will have a field day with armed drones.

RPG'S will take care of those.

I'll give you guess where I am sending them first.

Dink

never really understood the concept that if you question anything the police do, you are a 'cop hater'.
The attitude of 'us against them' that cops have, is creating a wider gulf between Citizens and cops.
The criminalization of damn hear everything, and the push to collect civil fines and forfeitures seems to drive law enforcement. Traffic law enforcement is seen more and more, as being all about the money it creates.
Despite all the millions of arrests, and the collecting of billions of dollars in fines, folks still speed.
The war on drugs, another massive failure when compared to it's goals, has resulted in the incarceration of a quarter of the population.
Throw in the fact that most cops are public service employee union members, and it's hard to escape the feeling that they are indeed 'different' from the rest of us Citizens.

Cop hater....

That just shows you can't fix stupid. If people continue to be ticketed/arrested why shouldn't the state/muni keep taking their money? If they don't take it someone else will.

The cops vs citizen mentality is driven by civilians. People are jealous of police. Being a cop is one of the very few jobs that you can be fired for something you do own your time even if it's not illegal but people insist we are treated if we are above the law.

Dink

snark!

and there is always the problem, when discussing the issue of law enforcement and the interface of the average Citizen with the process, that the discussion deteriorates into personal attacks and rancor.
It is possible to dislike the process, and the direction that the whole process is going, and still have respect and concern for those officers that are involved.
It has never been my contention that the individual officer involved is the real problem.
Oh they CAN be, but the average guy in the position is just as much 'one of us' as any other Citizen.

Law enforcement is an admirable profession when performed admirably, but I don't believe there are anymore people jealous of police than they are jealous of mechanics, or plumbers. Maybe less.

Point I was attempting to make with Barak was, if you haven't done anything wrong, then it should be extremely easy to engage in civil communication. Really simple. His his case, or people who have similar issues, they would be much better served to keep their yap shut.

When I was a teenager, bunch of us in town had motorcycles. A couple of the kids had real bikes---Honda 350 scramblers. I had a Trail 90 (which is what happens when your Dad is a Dairy Farmer). Anyhoo, one Sunday afternoon the kids with real bikes were out riding (they were all under age to drive or close to being under age). Ole Dave Sparks gave chase (local gendarme). The guys rode up into the hills, drug their bikes under a fence and then rode into the next canyon and got away. Today, everyone ('cept one) is an upstanding citizen.

My philosophy is anytime a basically good teenage kid can outrun the fuzz. Go for it.

Had DNR, Local, and County police after a group of us more than a handful of times. They would only chase us for entertainment (on our behalf).... The funny thing was the ex-police chief gave the local officers these polaris scramblers that couldn't hold 2 cents to our piped, jetted, and tuned banshees and 250R's. Their radios came in handy enough for some close calls but their lacking of knowledge with the local trails and property proved in our favor. 90% of the time we rode through fields and property that we were given permission by the property owners to be on.

The other 10% was on the state snowmobile trails......


The police were always called by the ignorant fuddy dudd neighbors that thought they owned everybody's property. The funniest thing I ever seen though was when the farmer broke it off in the the local rookies backside for driving across his crops trying to cut us off in the feild we were allowed to ride in. The sight of a 86 Dodge pick-up screaming in on that squad car was priceless. Every once in awhile the officers would just wait down the street from our house for us to come home....

The guy on the banshee was schtupid for trying to outrun on the road in the first place. Short bursts quick turns in the dirt. and even heading through the woods. Stock banshees would only do 65-72mph out of the box and the fastest one modified without slapping a different jug on was 92mph in my witness.

What my friends and I did back in the day for fun is not worth the risk anymore because of all of the uptight liberals flocking into our area. Guess thats why we have memories......

Jealous? laffin'

Here in NJ we ride quads in the upper NW part of the state and the local cops just waive to us when they see us, even when we have to cross a road or two. Not just because they know we are "OTJ", they just don't bother guys out just having fun on a Sunday morning. Now the game wardens are a different story. Pretty much known if you get stopped by one of them, you'll get a ticket. Moral of that story is if we ever stop one of them, we extend them the same courtesy.

If there is anyone around jealous of the hours the calls the dickheads the pay the domestics the drunks the crashes the midnight calls the informing someone of the death of a relative hey, I will give up my apparently most coveted job in a heartbeat...The only problem is I can't think of many other things I would rather do...

for the average police you run into at the quickie mart or burger king and just strike up a conversation, I have no problem engaging in friendly banter.

But if a policeman comes to me to discuss a pontential situation that he may view me as a offender, I'm not talking to him at all.
From sitting on the grand jury, I've learned enough that those that talk end up in jail that night. 90% of the cases that made it to the grand jury were because the defendant incriminated himself in some way by cooperating with police.

Maybe you can explain how innocent people incriminate themselves.

Sure they are. We get to do what everyone wants to watch on the news. Cops know things about people, families and businesses that people wish they could hide. Cops know which doctors, lawyers, business men beat their wives, have kids that are dopers, that have stolen things, touch children, etc. These people may have enough money to keep/get them out of trouble but the truth is still known by the guys that worked it. A lot of deep dark secrets are known.

We also get to drive fast.

I have never met a plumber or mechanic that knew anything other than gossip.

Dink

I'm just relaying that I know once a policeman thinks you did it, its a bad idea to try to talk your way out of it.

He has a job to do, don't make it easier on him or harder on yourself.

Bottom line is if a policeman is talking to you about a crime, he isn't there to prove you're innocent.

I can only speak from personal experience and that is if someone I'm questioning just clams up right out of the gate, they are hiding something and it just peaks my curiosity even further. The exceptions to this guideline are folks like Barak of course. It is certainly your right to remain silent.

Anyone that can work with their hands gets my admiration. All I can do is shoot straight, and there ain't much of a peace time demand for that anymore.

Correct. He may just be looking for the truth, and if the truth is that you're innocent, then he has one less suspect. Fact is, by the time I had a suspect in custody, getting him to "spill the beans" was really unimportant. There was already enough evidence to convict without the statement. The statement is really just icing on the cake, and lends itself to more guilty pleas in court.

Flip side is these guys who typically post here about how they behave when in the presence of LEO's, are really FOS.

You have no idea why he didn't stop.

dammit wild that was funny!

But you already did that when you got hired and had to "make your bones". Hawkeye said we all go through that.

"Make your bones"...?

Easy? Yes. Simple? Heck yes. Dangerous? Absolutely. Helpful? Never.

Stupid? Might depend on whether you've seen this or not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Isn't most of that public record?

Oh yah, hawkeye said rookies have to prove themselves trustworthy to the old guys by killing somone.

Of course. But now, you see how the question of whether you're a dirty cop or not doesn't even come up? If I talk to you, you have a choice of whether to act on what I say in bad faith or not. (Remember, folks, it's perfectly legal for cops to tell you barefaced lies, on video, about everything from one end to the other if they think it might get you to incriminate yourself. It's only illegal for you to lie to them.)

But if I don't talk to you, then it doesn't matter whether you're a dirty cop or not: you can't act on what I say in bad faith, because I haven't said anything.

Is that guy high on coke ? Reason I asked is bc of how fast he talks. Ok, so I watched the first 10 min. approx and what I'm sensing is if you're guilty shut your yap....And that's good advise. Has nothing to do with this topic.

By killing someone, or just by displaying a level of corruption consistent with the norm for the precinct (which, in a few extreme cases, I suppose, might involve killing someone)?

OMG

Yes, you have to listen fast.

But no, he makes some very good arguments that even innocent people should keep their yaps shut. And the police detective guest he has gets up a little more than halfway through the program and says that everything the professor said was absolutely right.

Has quite a bit to do with this topic.

I think I already said, in your case you'd be better off exercising silence. Best case scenario for you would likely result in an involuntary 48 hour observation.

I believe it was on a thread a few years ago abotu a college kid who got killed by cops after pointing an antique rifle of some sort at the police.

He outran her, huh? Whoopdee doo. Someone like that'd have to practically want to get caught in those conditions, knowing the area as he seemed to. He did almost lose it on that one jump in someone's yard, I noticed, but it looked like to me that he knew from jump he'd not get caught--by her, anyway.

Back in the bad old days, we'd flee from John E. Law on a like, weekly basis. Not for anything truly criminal, but they frowned heavily on kids in the city gathering and drinking and, well, y'know, being wise-asses. Since none of us wanted to get cuffed, stuffed and roughed--or even worse, brought home to your old man--when they came, we'd bolt every single time.

A few of the chases we led them on in cars and on foot, with us always on foot, were the stuff legends were made of. Some epic fails in there too. For most of the mob I ran with, rare was the day someone would actually get pinched.

But then, you know and area well, with rooftops, alleys, apartment complex basements, subway tunnels, fences, tracks and backyards... Unless you're too damned drunk to run, or have a really speedy, or determined cop (or both!), the runners always had the upper hand in the inner city. By far.

Not proud of wasting their time, or making a bloody nuisance--and then some-- of ourselves, but hey, that was then, and I've grown up a bit since then. Now I just occasionally pour booze in my eyes to self-punish. I think.

So far, as long as I keep my big mouth shut, nobody's been able to discover or manufacture any probable cause.

Bloody hell......count me in too, please, oh please ignore me too!!!!!

My best friend is now an FBI agent, been doing it about 10 years since he got out of the Marine Corps. He essentially says the same thing as Barak, that if you ever get into a situation where you're detained by the police as a suspect to NOT engage them without a lawyer present. He says not to be a jerk, but any questioning should be answered with "I'll need to talk to my lawyer before I can answer that". All communication with them is a fishing expedition and they wouldn't be questioning you if they already knew the answers. He told me that 90% of the time the suspects do themselves in by talking too much. The cop might think you're guilty but that doesn't man squat, all that matters is what he can prove.

RDFinn

the policee would not be stopping you, and attempting to engage you in conversation if they felt you were innocent.
The police have no idea of the gut wrenching feeling that being stopped engenders in the average person.
I think it is damn sound advice that a Citizen not offer any info to the police in such a situation, other than to answer a direct question with a factual, direct reply. Offering anything else is not to the Citizen's advantage.
The police are working the encounter to their advantage, why is it wrong for a Citizen to do the same?

Exactly right. If a cop has initiated conversation with you in anything close to an official capacity, his mind is working over time trying to find a way to get you into the system. That's their path to advancement.

They don't have to. A cop can wrongly believe he heard something incriminating just because his mind was bent in that direction.

I've never been questioned by the police except for traffic stops. Then it's readily apparent they feel the need to combine a fishing expedition into a stop for 11 over on a deserted road. If they don't know the speed limit on the road, they shouldn't be asking me. Where I'm going, where I've been, why I'm on that road, is not pertinent to the issue of speed over the limit they purport not to know. No wonder traffic stops have become dangerous events for cops. They believe they can assert themselves into peoples lives in ways not relevant to the issue at hand. It pisses people off. What they may appear to be hiding is contempt. I don't hide it, though, I want them to know full well what I think of their tactics.

Yes I do. And I'm more than likely correct.

Yes, sort of a rite of passage, a barroom bouncer's first toss out, a cop's first successful armed encounter, etc.

Not quite the way I put it, but no surprise there. "Making one's bones" is a slang expression. Look it up.

I wasn't speaking of using the ignore feature. I was merely stating that it had become clear there was no point in attempting the use of reason with him. Seems to be a common trait among the cops on the Fire, with a few exceptions.

Ah...fruit!...I knew it was too good to be true.

I don't think I've ever known anybody that didn't run from the cops. At least a few times.

Thank God we were able to dodge all those bullets and murderous po-po!


Travis

There seems to be a natural conflict between the idea that if you are innocent you shouldn't be afraid to talk to police and basic mantra of our law being that EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty.

And innocence may just be a matter of degree. What a policeman may think is a simple trespass may turn into a B&E, Burglary or even home invasion once someone decides to talk to a policeman, and they are going to do everything possible get you on the most significant charge or multiples. The average citizen may not know the difference.

I stick with my statement given how the sentencing structure is, incentives for conviction and the general approach of police once they are fully engaged in investigating a crime, you will NOT talk your yourself into walking away.

If the policeman doesn't have anything on you when talking to you, he isn't going to have anything more on you if you don't talk. He may think you are guilty but he isn't going to act on it without proof. If he has proof, then talking only makes it worse.

Its really as simple as that.

Teachers can be fired like that too...

I had forgotten what a lunatic Dink really is.

Lots of folks are found guilty only to be found not-guilty later. However, I place this primarily at the feet of DA's and not LEOs. How can this be? Because many DA's (please not I said many and not all) are more concerned with conviction rates instead of justice. Why? Because conviction rates help their re-election bids.

you have to be arrested by the police before the DA can do anything about it.

I hadn't which is why I have him on ignore. It's so much fun to jerk his chain and have no idea of what he is saying. I'm sure glad he's not a cop in my area.

That doesn't stop you from using it.

You need to set JSTUART right, deflave. He thinks the cop should have executed this kid.

So my advise is working.

Hard to believe he's actually walking around wearing a badge out there somewhere.

Lots of guilty folks are found not guilty.

Do you need counsel to answer "What's your name" "Where are you coming from" ? If yes, life's going to be expensive for you.

Why are you speaking to me again.

You tell em.

Yes, and I can speak from experience.

The purpose of the poice is to protect the State at all cost from the enemy, We the People. We the People need a hired gun to protect us at all cost from the enemy, the State.

If you can tell me what the guy on the quad had for breakfest I'll really be impressed.

That was a good movie. Wasn't Will Smith in that one ?

Maybe you should stick to banking conspiracies.

And.....

No surprise there, you're guessing.

I guess I missed that.


Travis

Innocence is a legal concept. The prosecution, in order to get a finding of guilt, must prove the essential elements of the offence 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' If they fail to meet the onus of the burden of proof, or if the defence establishes a 'reasonable doubt,' the finding must be not guilty, whether the person actually committed the offence or not.

The assumption of innocence in an adversarial system of justice works quite well, at least it does up here in Canada. There are always a number of charges that never make it to trial because an essential element of the offence is absent in the evidence. They get withdrawn at the first reasonable opportunity in the courts in which I am a prosecutor. (Minor traffic, liquor, trespass, etc.)

Of course, our Crown Attorney is not elected, he is a hired lawyer. Bet that makes a difference.

Why would he need to answer that at all, counsel or no? I don't, and it works out fine for me.

Even on ignore you can't stop thinking about me.

That is almost as creepy as Mannlicker checking out the guy in the gas station.

Dink

I said I wouldn't any longer attempt reasoning with you, that having been proved futile. I didn't say I wouldn't continue to refute your errors. You can count on the latter.

Just a quick comment about the title of this thread, A Bud said we should "Mess with the Police" one night when I was a teenaged boy, I said, UHHHHH Let's not, our appreciation and need for oxygen will be appreciably longer if we dont. he reluctantly agreed

Gunner

I've made no errors here.



This is what you said. Don't believe you're all that capable of "reasoning". You need an open, undistorted mind for that. You clearly don't have that.

I don't consider refuting errors a waste of time.

I have tried not to weigh in on this but it seems that I do not have the will power. My take is that actions have consequences. If you run, be prepared for bad schit to happen if you are caught. Do what ever you want to, but be prepared to pay whatever the price is for that particular action. miles

Let me know when you find one.

Sage advise.

As I said earlier, the way folks talk [bleep] here and they way they actually behave if they have contact with LEO's, are vastly different.

What would you do if you pulled somebody over for some minor traffic infraction and he gave you his license and registration when asked, but no matter what you said or did to him he just stared wordlessly at you?

What--are you going to arrest him? You'd look like a complete idiot. Drag him out of the car and Taser him until he talks to you? Even worse.

I've had several cops make a few attempts at getting a response, then shrug and attend to business with no further interruptions. One of them got a drug dog and ran it around my car. One little scrawny guy worked himself up into a real lather until he was nose to nose with me (well, nose to chest, anyway) with his Taser out, blowing spit up into my face and screaming, "You got a problem with me? Huh? Huh? You got a problem, you son of a bitch?" until his partner pulled him aside and calmed him down.

One cop came to my house asking for permission to take photos of my truck to prove that it had been involved in a hit-and-run incident the previous day (it hadn't). I just stared at him without answering, and after making some pretty dire but empty threats he gave up and went out to the end of the driveway and took his pictures from there while I recorded video on my cell phone from the porch.

Another saw me land a plane after dark at an unattended airport (absolutely routine, but he apparently didn't know that) and came roaring up as I was offloading stuff from the plane into my car (harmless stuff) and hollered that I wasn't allowed to be on airport property after hours. (Utter bullcrap.) I glanced at him once, then continued loading my car and putting the plane to bed, ignoring him. He hollered at me a few more times, then got back in his cruiser and started talking on the radio. When I got the plane tied down and locked up, I just drove away; he didn't follow.

I'll grant you that it can be tough to find the courage to keep shut when a big scary cop, laden down with all sorts of weapons, demands answers in his best "command voice," and maybe tougher to fight down the ego that tries to force a response when he tells you what you did and is completely wrong. But after you manage it the first time and see the pickle it puts him in, and how much control it gives you over what he can do, as opposed to him having the control over what he will do...all of a sudden it's nowhere near as scary or difficult anymore.

Matter of fact, with the spit-blower guy I had to consciously resist laughing: he was so impotently furious he was pretty funny. Reminded me of Joe Pesci a little.

I have a hunch you and DINK might end up the same way he did.

Great stories.



Travis

All true.

I love it. Great stuff. Good on you.

A quick post (against my better judgement) and I'll let y'all continue with regularly scheduled banter:

When I ask a person if they're aware of the speed limit and/or why they're speeding I'm trying to give them an "out". I know how fast they were going and I know what the acceptable range of speed is. I'm giving the operator a chance to make both our lives easier by not writing the ticket. If the operator wants to stare at me blankly and hand me his licence....

For the "don't talk to the police crowd", do what you will. Again, if I ask to speak to you in regards to "x" I already have the answer 99.9% of the time (don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to). Again, I'm often looking to give the individual a way out. For example, I attempted to make contact with a young lady last night. My new guy has her cold on a fairly serious DV charge. Based on the information available right now, my guy should be burning warrants. If she speaks to us and tells me what I think she's going to, I can justify going to my boss (and the CA's office) and possibly argue against arrest. If she wants to avoid me and/or "not speak to the police"........

George

I appreciate your position, but I gave up on the possibility of not getting a ticket ages and ages ago when (unbeknownst to me) the escaped felon was using my SSN and every contact with the government--not just the police--wound up involving not only tickets but guns and handcuffs.

Penny gets warnings. I don't get warnings.

I'd much rather not get warnings than get some of the other things cops can do to you if you talk.

Yeah, I can do a lot with "I'm late for work" or "I was thinking about X and wasn't paying attention".

What about the young lady in question? Speak to the police and potentially avoid arrest and an easy conviction for a pair of Class A Misdemeanors, or keep her mouth shut and wind up, at a minimum, in jail for the weekend until she can be arraigned on Monday and then face the above?

George

Oh--I also don't speed, in case it makes a difference. I do frequently forget to renew my registration.

Yes, but you're not a mere mortal. You're an angelic being in a policeman's uniform, merely taking the apparent form of flesh and blood. Most cops are mere mortals, subject to normal human frailties in the context of power.

Maybe if I lived in your AO I'd look at things a little differently.

But I don't, and I've only ever met one cop who had any interest at all in making things easier on me. He was the guy who told me, after giving me a ticket, that the reason there were always guns and handcuffs was that an escaped felon had stolen my identity. Old cop, white hair, smile, walked with a limp. Years back. Modern cops around here are not like that anymore.

What I see, more and more in these sort of threads, is that the police and the citizens truly live in different worlds. No wonder the majority of people don't trust, respect, or want anything to do with the police.

So I'm curious. Sounds like an interesting story, but much of it is over my head. Who's your "new guy?" What's DV? What does "burning warrants" mean? Who's the CA?

You are a liar.

Dink

domestic violence

You amuse yourself into thinking you're that important. If someone wants to exercise "the code of silence" it simply erases any chance they had of a verbal warning, which accounted for more than 50% of my MV stops.

Please don't let me curtail your cyber fantasies though.

The State has pretty much abandoned the pretense of being subject to the people, and everybody understands by now, even if they don't want to admit it, that the people are the subjects of the State. Cops are the tools with which the State maintains the people in subjection to it; therefore, the relationship is fundamentally an adversarial one, just as the relationship between a corrections officer and a prisoner is fundamentally adversarial.

Now I have to tell you that I know a couple of COs, personally, who are so good at their job that they are beloved by everyone, prisoners, staff, and security alike. They have managed to take an adversarial relationship and make lemonade out of it. It does happen.

But only two, out of maybe a thousand COs I've met and a couple hundred I know.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with cops.

You're funny.

And so predictable!

I wouldn't be surprised if you even look a bit like Joe Pesci.

Very true.

You asked what DV was.

Boyhood dreams............lol

George, I think you are one of kind and the last dinosaur standing.

Montana being a rural state with everybody armed to the teeth the police around here aren't to bad but still one had better be careful what one says to a cop. It could land one in the State's Five Star Hotel in Deerlodge.

Got it--thanks.

I thought it was Deo Volente ?

Learn something new every day, Deo Volente...

They didn't use those terms on Adam-12.

Why don't you tell everyone the story about the the cop seeing the gun case in your truck while they were directing traffic at a crash seen? I bet you can't with out looking up the old post/lie.

For someone that does not like the police you sure have a bunch of run ins with them. Now the only question is whether those run ins are real or make believe.

Dink

What's that--God wills? The only Latin I know is from the Mass--from classical choral church music.

Crash scene? Hmm. Maybe you're the one who doesn't remember it.

If it's something like a traffic stop I see no reason to be silent. Also, I'm always told the reason they pulled me over was speeding and by how much without me asking. I then tell them the truth; either I wasn't paying attention or I was in a hurry to get to work. I haven't been written a ticket in years.

However, if I was being questioned about something serious I would not volunteer any information without an attorney being present.

Exactly.

Really? With the incredible diversity in professions, competencies, and expertise represented here, you want to get into a jargon-off?

For each one of us here, there are probably a dozen others who could advise us in the mechanics of autocopulation in their own jargon and have us thank them for the compliment.

Let this serve as public notice: I'm not interested in participating in or promoting any such contest. I'm perfectly happy to expand my own jargon into layman's terms wherever it crops up, and I love it when people in other disciplines do the same.

To a point. When they ask me what the speed limit is and I know I tell them, when they ask me how fast I was going I make sure they realize I don't know... I don't generally speed purposely. At least not for the last 15 yrs or so...

If, however, they do their fishing thing I just keep answering the last relevant question, though I'll admit I haven't had them do that much.

Honestly, I have to take this opportunity to say that the Michigan State Police are fantastically professional and I've never had any issues with them, even back when I did have run-ins with the police on a less than rare occasion. More local forces where any Barney Fife can get a job, well... a whole lotta dinks in those...

When I need to brush up on jailor jargon, I'll know right where to go.

My "new guy" is my guy with about a year on the road. DV is Domestic Violence and the CA is County Attorney. I probably should have said "completing" warrants, but I was typing quickly.

George

Your attempt at being smug amuses me, but it's pointless. The fact is, I'm representative of the vast majority of LEOs in my AO. I know that must stick in your craw, but it's the simple truth.

Experience backs up my words, but I know that's a concept you're not familiar with. It's much easier, and safer, to eperience academic masturbation from the safety of your living room/office/classroom.

Damn that real world.....

George

Thanks for the clarification.

It's difficult for me to come to grips with the concept of a cop who looks for reasons not to make an arrest. I'm not sure I even understand it theoretically.

It'd be like me trying to keep perfectly good software out of production. I can't imagine what would motivate me to try something like that, but if I did and a client found out, I'd be gone by the end of the day.

It'd be taking my client's money to work for their competitors.

You know not of what you speak regarding my level of experience. I could tell you some stories.

Furthermore, as to the rest, Serpico is a true story, not fiction. The man himself insists that the corruption was worse and more universal than depicted in the movie, and it is his judgment that it goes with the institution of police departments rather than being something limited to New York City during a particular period of time.

Makes sense. Human beings in New York City, after all, aren't made from a different sort of matter than are human beings from other states and cities. Nor has the nature of man changed in that period of time.

Well said. It just doesn't make sense. And what doesn't make sense is, generally speaking, not true.

would you keep software out of production that had the potential to cause harm to unsuspecting people .

Actually my friend, the prime directive in LE has been and hopefully will always be CRIME PREVENTION Via deterrence rather than "busting the bad guys and harassing the public" I had hoped I had projected that concept in many of my prior posts on the subject. That is why we were originally called Peace Officers, we were tasked with keeping the peace and bringing miscreants before the bar of justice. We DO NOT prosecute law breakers, we simply are charged with bringing them to be judged by their peers.

Like what?

laffin

Such software would not qualify as "perfectly good."

I'm old enough to remember when that was the case; but even you have commented that it is less and less so as time goes on. These days, there are gangs of cops who bust into the homes of innocent people in the middle of the night and murder them.

Although raptor 700's are bad ass, they don't hold a candle to a banshee with after market parts

I've only ridden a bone stock Banshee and it was a hoot. No torque though, but when it "came on" it was snappy.

Still not near as bad as folks try to paint it, I know an awful lot of good cops that do the job right. For every bad one there is HUNDREDS of the good ones going to work every day and still "keeping the peace".

And most of the bad ones seem to work for the feds IMHO, but even then there are a bunch of good ones there as well.

Really, regale us with some stories of your experience policing. How many field contacts do you have, warrants completed, arrests? This is your chance to prove I know nothing about your LE experience. I know, you could have.......



I've spent enough time in NY, LA, NO, Schitcago, Baltimore, DC, etc. to know that there is a fundamental difference in "those folks" and the folks in NH in regards to attitude/social mores/ideals/etc. LEOs are, generally, drawn from the population in a given area. Thus, there are tremendous differences between an LEO in NH, NY, NJ, TX, etc. I realize that doesn't fit your agenda, but it's basic truth.



The fact that it doesn't make sense to you doesn't surprise me. Your agenda and urban lifestyle won't allow you to accept the reality of the situation. Your loss....

George

You trickster, you. Narrowing it down to policing, now, are you? Isn't that called the old switcheroo? Pretty sad you have to resort to kids' stuff.

Awe, but human nature's the same everywhere, old buddy.

Nice deflection, but all too typical. Your original post, which I quoted, spoke to police officers. My respnse was that I was the norm in regards to policing in my AO and that actual experience backed my opinions. The entire discussion was in regards to policing. Your reply; "You know not of what you speak regarding my level of experience. I could tell you some stories." implies, on its face, that you have experience in said field.

Clearly, I'm pulling "the old switcheroo" .



You are correct....those riding the pine will always think they know what the players should do. They will even think that their opinions matter to those in a significantly different geographic/cultural location. Of course, if you pay taxes in NH I might reconsider listening a bit more....

George

Are you mad....stop encouraging this tool.

Why in God's name would I do that!.......I personally find your fantasies to be riveting entertainment.

One thing though, I generally would take most at their word if they tell me it is daylight outside at 1 pm.....but with you and Barak I would physically have to go outside and check as simply looking through the window would not be enough to verify anything either of you espouse.

Right. Though not in the least at the time, in '86 or so my brother was unceremoniously abducted by BPD, and taken behind the Boston Garden loading docks. His offence? Being a dikkhead.

After the boys there rolled up on a few dozen of we boyscouts on a downtown corner waiting on a bus on our way to a Jethro Tull show in Worcester, they advised folks to dump any booze and eat any hooch, as they'd gotten a few complaints. If they had to come back, well, 'smarten the fahk up' was the general warning. Fair enough. As they rolled off in two cruisers, my brother, trying to show off, exposed a liter of 151 Bacardi he had hidden down the back of his jacket to a few mates. Unfortunately for my soon-to-be-tenderized brother, one of the cops saw him in the side view mirror as they were pulling out without really breaking nuts. Well, there's always one dumbass!

Hammered him, cuffed, with batons, fists and boots for a few, then asked him if he thought what he'd done was worth it. The obvious answer spewed forth. My brother was told something like, "a smaht punk wouldn't have tried to show off that he'd gotten over on a cop; he'd have slid up to one of those fine ass young chicks heading to the show, all calm like, and started having a few.

Sometimes, there are lessons to be learned, even at the back of the Boston Garden under the weight of a beatin'. My brother was then turned loose, and felt like he made out like a bandit. And he did. I'd have paid a fat bribe on more than a few occasions in my misspent youth, to exchange a thumping in an alley for the unfortunate prize I won behind door number 3...

Ah, to be young.

That's all they'll be....stories.

Not sure here. He's got nunchucks, y'know!

Your actual words, in full context, are permanently recorded just a few posts ago. Who do you think you're fooling? My response was to those, not to your post hoc rewrite. Quit playing children's games.

Quit stalling, Hawk, and tell us some of those stories.

This. That was a miserable excuse for driving.

OK, this one time, at band camp .... Damn, the phone's ringing ... hold on.

A 43-minute phone call?

Come on. You said you had stories that would impress George, an experienced LEO.

Impress George and you'll probably impress me.

Hawk gonna give you guys some "Once upon a times".....

When that's all you have.....

He was almost a cop, back in the day, so he would have had some stories.

From where did the idea originate that, unless one is or has been a cop, one hasn't, in NH's words, experienced the "real world," but (to use his words further) has only engaged in "academic masturbation from the safety of [one's] living room/office/classroom." Nothing better illustrates, I suppose, the arrogance cop work infuses in one. And they wonder why folks increasingly resent them.

That wheeler had some grunt.

Unless he was driving reckless, trespassing, damaging property, someone called to complain, etc... no reason to stop him. Looked like a pretty rural 2 lane to me.


As was said, don't know too many people that haven't run from the police a time or two.

Its really funny when the cop on a Harley tries to catch you on the power line trails riding a YZ125. It took that fella a while to pick his bike up on that steep slope he lost it on. I'm pretty sure he puked.

Blah, blah, blah.......you said you had stories. Guess now it's safe to say you're a liar.

That makes him "the story".

I grew up in the country and suburbs. But when we would go downtown I minded my P's and Q's. Chicago cops are not to be [bleep] with.


Travis

I remember racing against one of my sisters dates. He had brand new 5.0 and I had a nice shiny KX80 my father bought for me. After blowing his doors off I thought 'NOBODY could catch me on this thing'. Turned out I was right...


Travis

Laffin'! There you go again (still) with the twisting and dodging. Most have come to expect nothing less, though. That is why, for me, you have next to no credibility. Here is my entire quote:

"Your attempt at being smug amuses me, but it's pointless. The fact is, I'm representative of the vast majority of LEOs in my AO. I know that must stick in your craw, but it's the simple truth.

Experience backs up my words, but I know that's a concept you're not familiar with. It's much easier, and safer, to eperience academic masturbation from the safety of your living room/office/classroom.

Damn that real world....."

That doesn't state, or even imply, that one has to be a cop to experience the "real world". There are those that will never see a uniform that are much more experienced than I will ever be.

Note the words "you", "you're" and "your", please. Those might be a hint.....

Plenty of guys on here have actually met me (that real world thing again). The majority aren't cops. Ask any of them if arrogance is an adjective they would use about my personality.

Your smug, dodging manner that draws nothing from actually doing something is indicative of the modern day academic. And they wonder why folks increasingly resent and have no use for them.

You told George there were stories you could tell. The context of your statement strongly implied that they'd be really good stories.

It's not nice to tease. Let's have a couple.

Stop being so damned insistant.....he is just taking his time so that he can use the net to research the facts on someone Else's story.


...and then pass it off as his own particular brand of bull.

You guys are so impatient. Alright, I started the one about that one time ... in band camp ... Oh damn, it's the phone again. Wait here, I'll be right back.

George make me look arrogant by comparison for Pete's sake. A very laid back guy IMHO.

I'll chime in that I've met a few of the LEO's here - and "arrogant" is simply not an appropriate adjective. To a man they are great, down to earth guys. The guys who stick in the job, dealing with the stress, drama, and danger tend to be people of well balanced personality.

If the guy in the video is smart enough to not brag about it we'll never know why he did it - whether it was fear of getting caught, thrill seeking - or maybe he was wanted for serious crimes. Maybe he was simply riding the ATV to the gas station and was angered that he might get a ticket or worse for a minor infraction. He took a huge risk and beat the odds, but it was still a stupid risk.

I've seen traffic policing in North Carolina that was overly aggressive - warning people for going 57 in a 55, for example, but the vast majority of the time, police are reasonable. If you have police that are abusing power - threatening to confiscate ATV's that are driving on a road 1/2 a mile to gas station, then it's time to man up, take your evidence to a public forum like a city council or county board meeting, and hold people accountable, not engage in dangerous whimsical protests.

I dunno, Pat. I'm pretty sure this one's got a mean streak a mile wide. If'n you catch him when he's not fishing, hunting, shooting or napping, I hear he can be as nasty as a damned snake.

Guess I must have been lucky, even here in the big city.

Mostly when I get stopped I'm interested to meet the officer, but then I most often get/got stopped for speeding. I am kind of curious why I dont get pulled over more often, the way I drive. Must be all them motorcycle years has made me into a skilled speeder.

Last two times all I got is warnings.

Anyhoo... the last time I spoke to a Cop was just last night, 700 miles away from here at a sobriety checkpoint. Had a pleasant, if brief conversation abouot the merits of Glocks.

YMMV,

Birdwatcher

"Cops", at least around my way, don't bother so much with bikes and alot of cops are bikers anyway.

Ya, except that most of my driving nowadays is on four wheels. I'd guess one just gets better at speeding is all.

Birdwatcher

He drives pitbulls crazy, too...

If you want arrogance just go back to the thread where you tell rasuil to get his jd and then you'll talk.

But but but he saw it on YouTube or read about......
The shuck and jive is par for the hawkee course. So is hypocrisy.

We know you haven't experienced the real world other than in a drug induced haze lingering from your hippie days. Enlighten us more on your answers to the worlds problems from the safety of your keyboard...probably the same place you pedophile teachers get into chat rooms to solicit young kids. I saw that on the news. Same place I saw another HS teacher took a student to a hotel for the night and another, in his 50's was involved in a love story (according to his attorney) with a 16 year old student. True story. You teachers disgust me.

Umm, mate.....that is one hell of a generalization there!.....not all teachers are peds, the same as not all blokes are rapists.

You may want to save the vitriol for the filth that actually are guilty.

JEEZE, ya think? Well said.

amazing, the abuse some folks take, just to get some attention. At some point though, you would think a bit of STFU would come into play.

Yeah, he does that too.

I thought teachers made their "bones" by bagging a sophomore....

That's a good one..

You mean not ALL teachers rape their students???? I figured if a few did, they all did. Isn't that what you do TRH? Sterotype based on a few? I assumed this also applied to your profession.....

The two profession's are in no way comparable. Teachers cannot walk around town looking for someone to arrest or harass over minor, non-victimizing, issues, break down doors in the middle of the night, etc., etc. This sort of power literally breeds corruption. It is the exceptional cop who's not corrupt. Teaching doesn't tend to corrupt one, being that it's not a position with power behind it more menacing than being able to issue grades to students, or send them to the Dean.

Is being in a position to poison young minds a position of power ?

Not very much, since parents are in a position to monitor this, and have power to address it by several 100% effective means available to them.

That wasn't an answer to my question. Kind of like cops arresting someone after they committed a B&E.

I see, so a teacher can poison the minds of his students that quickly? Didn't realize the power I wielded.

Only said teachers are in the "position" to. Teenagers, are rebellious by nature, mostly to their parents. All I know is that I've had some teachers that I admired and respected alot.

Grow the [bleep] up.


Travis

It's true that both cops and government-school teachers are tools for imposing the will of the State on its subjects--one through threats and violence, the other through deception and indoctrination--but it's the cops, not the teachers, who get to break the laws that are enforced on everyone else.

A cop, for instance, can murder an innocent in broad daylight without transgressing Department Policy and never lose a day's pay; there's no way a teacher, even a government teacher, can rape somebody openly and get away with it.

I think that's a qualitative difference.

I'll be damned....I thought there was a statute in NH that specifically covered the use of force by a LEO! It's not like our Attorney General would love nothing better than to hang a cop to further his political career...... .

You, and TRH apparently, need to find a new area to live in if your cops are murdering "innocents".

George

I'm laughing to myself here cause that post just reminded me of someone here who said your ideas can be brought to a "logical conclusion".

To the best of my knowledge, murder and rape are still crimes and if convicted, are still punishable.

Pfft, like you haven't shot anyone this week with a "throw down" gun. Tomorrow, I'm planning a couple high speed chases, a shoot out or two, and might drop a pimp off a tall building, and it's only Monday.

We call that a slow day

And don't try and lie to me. I've seen episodes of The Shield and know what a cops life is like.

Hell, we just keep current maps of likely Gator holes and wild hog runs here!

Do you know how long I've been trying to find a group of Armenians around here? Damn money train.......

I can't find any Armenians, but was thinking about shaking down some Amish or Harikrishna's. Might not be a money train, but them phugger's gotta have a money buggy or something!

Please don't act as though you've never heard of it. Lon Horiuchi murdered Vicki Weaver and got a medal for it. He probably also murdered a number of Branch Davidians, and never lost a day's pay. David Hawn murdered 11-year-old Alberto Sepulveda, with a shotgun, as he lay on the floor with his hands on his head, and was cleared. Many police have killed people with Tasers. I have a whole file of these things, which it costs me in blood pressure to re-read. It happens. As long as the cops follow Department Policy, the murder is justified by their superiors and excused as accidental, or necessary for Officer Safety, or some other such BS pap that wouldn't stand for two seconds if it came from somebody other than a cop.

I don't think many government-school teachers have gotten away with raping students by claiming that they were just following Department Policy.

Government-school teachers are merely annoying; cops are frickin' dangerous.

Any jury's involved with these mass cover-ups ?

How many Branch Davidian's can you fit in a Volkswagon?

All of 'em......four in the seats and the rest in the ashtray.

Now we're cookin....

Never you mind the fact that you should be glad you've never had to walk a mile in their shoes, or make the decisions they have to make life or death, in milliseconds.

And never mind the fact that you paint all police for what a few may have done.....

If I posted a link, you'd accuse me of cherry-picking. Look 'em up.

Isn't that an art form for you ?

Is your argument that folks with difficult jobs should be allowed to kill people?

Because my job can be pretty darned difficult at times, and it's the very rare cop who would be able to do it.


The thing about cops is that unless you're personally acquainted with the cop in question--and probably sometimes not even then--you have no idea whether the cop in front of you is a decent cop or a dirty cop.

Would you accept a gun from somebody you didn't know, who claimed the chamber was empty, put it to your head, and pull the trigger? Of course not: that could get you killed.

So can dealing in good faith with cops you don't know.

Hence my philosophy, articulated earlier in this thread. There's no telling what a cop will do, so it's best to maintain maximum control over what the cop can do. Part of that is never consenting to a search; part of it is not talking to a cop; part of it is stopping at a place of your choosing rather than a place of the cop's choosing; part of it is never letting a cop see inside your house; and there are other parts that would be really stupid to post on a public message board.

Nothing personal is intended. Not all cops are dirty cops; but enough of them are that there's a definite possibility you'll meet one at least once in your life. It's a lot easier to come back from an encounter with a dirty government teacher than it is to come back from one with a dirty cop. So hey, I'm sorry if I make your job more difficult; but it's just your job. It's my life. If only one of us can go home to his wife at the end of the evening, it should be fairly easy to predict where my preferences lie.

If you had a really hot wife, would you trust your close friends (assuming you have any that aren't incarcerated) to be around her while away on a business trip, or would you rather total strangers be in her company.

I bet you can't read all those articles three times tonight. While your reading them think of all the mean things the police are going to do in the future.

Oh and don't your meds in the morning. It will be better that way.

Dink

I've got to admit, I really enjoy thinking about the absolute torture and terror barak goes through just living every minute of his life.

I remember when he almost sounded lucid years ago. He hasn't made an intelligent argument/point in quite some time now.

She has a gun and knows how to use it; I wouldn't be concerned about her in almost anybody's company.

Didn't ask about trusting her

A Money Buggy?

That's a classic right there. Let's get some Amish machine guns and take that [bleep] down!

I'm in.

Don't worry: I expect the likes of you to take the issue of cops killing innocents lightly. I'm a little surprised that you didn't make a crude joke about it.

Sometimes I wish that people like you had enough imagination to be able to see what's eventually going to start happening if the current course continues. Other times I think it'll probably work out better, all told, if you're surprised by it.

All those mean things posted and I only ask you to read a few articles so you could enlighten us.....

I think there will be a surprise but it won't be the one you wasted your whole life dreaming about.

Dink

"Escape From the Hutterites Colony" staring Kurt Russell.

It's a multi-million movie that I'm laying claim to.

Rattlesnake Plissken ... it's got a ring to it!

Okay, I wouldn't be concerned about anybody else in her company either. Either they'd behave themselves, in which case everything would be as it should, or she'd make them wish they had, in which case everything would be as it should.

She's a classy lady, but she has a reputation for definite limits. Her coworkers told me once about how she ran a drunk out of a restaurant bar when he started giving the bartender lip for cutting him off. I wasn't there, but it sounded pretty impressive, and she didn't need the gun for that one.

"Barak's Women Escapes from ... " ... Co-starring Kurt Russell.


It's another classic in the making.

You trust her. I understood that three posts ago. Maybe you should get some rest.

You could get Gary Busey (post accident) to play Barak..

Maybe I missed your point. Can you try it again?

Let Betty White age a couple more years and she could play the "leading lady"..

You hate most (99.99999%) cops. People you know (if cops) would be trusted even less based solely on your disdain for cops. Takes on a life form for you. You wax on and on about all these atrocities committed by cops and paint them all with the same ugly brush. Do you hate surgeons who cut into healthy bodies for greed or prestige and think they suck equally ? You really go into prisons and "preach the word of God" ? Wow..!!!!!!!



Yeah, I know. It's a life form for them too.

OK.

We got "Escape From the Hutterites Colony" starring Kurt Russell and Barak's Woman. She's tired of pluckin' gooses and will do anything to get out ... and she does.

They have to hijack a "money buggy" in order to have enough barter for Amish machine guns to totally blow away the Elders : ala The Matrix.

Barak has a minor role as the "English" who helps put it all together.

I forgot about Gary Busey.

He's the head whacko elder.

Betty White is Gary's wife.

I don't hate any cops. I don't hate rattlesnakes, I don't hate leeches, heck--I don't even hate politicians. There's no percentage in it; it doesn't pay.

But I'm careful around cops, because they're dangerous.

Even with pause on your side, you can't muster honesty.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Now you know how the rest of the world feels when they converse with you.


Travis

+1. Sad little man.

Barak IS Snake Pliskin? Whoa!

lol

Don't bother Travis....he still won't understand if you kick it down his throat.

You obviously have no idea about a lot of things.

I don't recall reading any hatred of police on *this* thread

A general distrust, an acknowledgement its a thankless job, questionable comparisons between professions, ridiculous assertions and assumptions, yes,

but not hatred.

I think everyone recognizes there is a need for the police - but it also comes with the caveat that as citizens we are allowed to question the judgement of those that wear the badge. That is true of just about every public servant. We question politicians, teachers, heck even firemen (remember letting the guys house burn down because he let a yearly fee slip?). Policemen are no exception. It doesn't need to be said, but unlike the other professions, the police have the capacity to detain, incarcerate, hurt, maim or even take your life. When citizens see the police acting out in a manner that is questionable - in this case, a pursuit that appears to endanger the public at large more than protect them then they take note of that.


When citizens see a policeman turn on his siren only to realize he did it to get around traffic, when they hear of cops letting other cops off for off duty offenses, when they see police using tasers , not in place of a gun or a baton but as a means of compliance because they have replaced the taser with their capacity for patience, when we see them take away video cameras for filming them do their job - if the power is abused at any level, it creates a barrier, a slippery slope of trust.

And vehemently defending police actions many in the general citizenry don't approve of in a blanket attempt to defend all LEO's only hurts the situation.

Well said.

I'm aware. There are few things more annoying than a drama queen that sucks his own cock.


Travis

True enough.


Some of us believe there's no need for government police, that private police would do the job better and more efficiently and there'd be much less trouble with the public.

But the job needs doing, yes.


Yup, although the cop chasing the motorcyclist for popping a wheelie did much more dangerous things than this one.


You mean, "replaced their capacity for patience with the Taser," right?


Yep. Same general mechanism as a group desperately trying outlaw a behavior the majority of the population sees no harm in, such as smoking marijuana.

Yeah, proud of most of you guys that have to mess with no tellin' how many weirdos and just plain idiots but have to wonder about a bunch of the unaware PC types that brew up a lot of the goofy rules.

Damn...all this time I coulda been makin' the rules?

"Some of us believe there's no need for government police, that private police would do the job better and more efficiently and there'd be much less trouble with the public.

But the job needs doing, yes."

So, Barak, should your wife get mugged, who you gonna call? Some private cop? Gonna have one on standby all the time? Ya need to come face to face with what is real and what is not, man.

Yeah. You don't sound much PC from where I sit.

I'm working on it.