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Vek - what boot are you wearing?

Vek, when I got my new condition but used Asolo Yukons, the sole came off early on in break in. When I took them to the cobbler, he said that the vibram was a tougher European version that required a different glue than that typically found in the states. He reglued them with the correct glue, but also stitched them onto the midsole for extra strength at my request. Have you had your boots resoled since you got them? If so, any details on how long it took to wear the original sole down, what kind of sole you replaced it with, and is it still just glued on or is there any additional stitching?

These:

http://www.alicosport.it/TREKKING%20BOOTS.htm

Bought at STP in 2004.

STP appears to stock a different "guide" now, with some godawful foamy cuff at the top:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/alico-new-guide-mountaineering-hiking-boots-for-men~p~64724/?filterString=s~alico%2F&colorFamily=05

Probably a concession to folks who think they're too stiff.

Dave Page resoled the boots in December 2010, a few months after the sheep died. The original sole went into that last sheep hunt worn but secure after two other sheep hunts and a couple of WA deer hunts. The sheep hunt killed them and then ate their livers. The sole wore through to the midsole at the arch on both boots and Page had to install a new layer of leather midsole. The resole job is still holding, but stitching would have been a good idea as the sole is starting to separate at the arch on both boots. They need new soles anyway after last year's hunt - you can't make out any distinct lugs around the rim of the sole looking down on them due to wear. He glued but did not stitch them.

Thanks for the info Vek. That seems to be about the same schedule I was accustomed to for resole / rebuild on my fire boots (Whites).

Just noticed that you're using my favorite solo shelter, the Utopia 2. I was mulling / arguing over tents quite a bit this morning and came to the conclusion (again) that for one guy in all conditions or two in a pinch the U2 has it. Freestanding and floorless is a nice combo.

A big part of the conclusion I've come to with boots is that it comes down to weight versus disposability. You can get (a lot) lighter weight and good performance out of the modern construction boots, but you'll have to replace them quite a bit more often than the boots Vek is using. Go with glorified tennis shoes and you're even lighter but replace them annually or more.

Something else that I find interesting. Lots of folks are focusing in on "heel drop" as they move to embrace the natural running and walking paradigm. My old Asolo Yukons have a much more neutral heel than my new school Asolo 600 something (bought from STP, quite a bit heavier than any other Asolos I've seen recently). As always, things come full circle.

I replace shoes pretty much yearly. Mine see a lot of scree and talus in the summer. I once killed a pair of Keen's in one descent off of Mears peak, 2500 ft of plunge stepping in scree did them in.

I find with the low heel drop, that I feel better. IT band issues become minor since the calves are more flexible.

I also don't really like the feel of boots anymore. They are harder on the knees in the hard stuff, and I find I can grip and navigate much better in shoes. The 5.10's are a nice combination, since i can still run in them if I need, haul lots of weight, and go up most anything. The downside, is they wet out and stay wet (neoprene socks) and year over year durability (not that they are poorly made, they just are not in the same class as high end boots). I expect about 2 yrs a pair on them, somewhat better than sneaks.

Thanks for the info Vek.

I'm wearing Limmer Ligthweights that I bought in 2007. The construction looks similar to the boots you're wearing (1 piece leather - stitched soles). I should be able to get one or two more years before a resole.

While I don't hunt Dalls every year, I do spend a considerable amount of time on chukar slopes which seem to eat lesser boots.

This is true, I always have my new boots re-soled with the much superior Italian Vibram and it is nailed and stitched to the slip or mid-soles. I have Scarpa Fuegos and a pair, ordered yesterday, of lighter Zamberlan Nuvalous coming that I will have done.

I have NO choice in wearing boots and have done for over a half century, I have never found any lighter, randed and molded boots that will fit and last like proper FGL, welted ones do. But, different people, places, uses and even personality types will create different choices.

Well, you've certainly got my idea of "serious backcountry use" pegged to a T.

But I'm not buying your outright dismissal of the rubber rand thing as nothing more than a gimmick. I had to have a pair of custom hand-made all-leather boots revamped after a fairly mundane season of chasing mule deer, elk and a lot of chukar hunting here in WA during my college years. I've not had nearly as bad cutting issues with randed boots and there's something to be said for have some waterproof protection while you're stomping through miles of mushy snow. And, the vibram tread pattern was slippery as [bleep] on wet or snowy sidehills. They were next to worthless whenever the rounded vibram would harden up in the cold and wouldn't "smear". As much as I loved the comfortable custom fit for working in the woods or trail cruising, I grew to hate those heavy bastards for hiking and hunting in steeper backcountry. A newish pair of Kene's k-talon tread, or whatever they call it, is like confidently cruising through the woods in corks compared to hard slippery vibram.

I suppose if a guy wanted a family heirloom to pass down through generations, a pair of heavy old-school clunkers would be a good way to go. For everyone else that can just send 'em back to Kenetrek (or Dave Page here in Seattle) for a retread of softer sticky tread every couple years, an off-the-shelf lightweight boot with a short to non-existent break in period ain't a bad way to go. Besides, when it comes down to "best boot", it's really just a personal preference thing and fit has the final say, within reason.

Personally, I've just grown to prefer a relatively lightweight, well constructed, comfortable hunting boot from a reputable manufacturer that I can have completely re-soled/randed once and then demote to yard work or throw away once the uppers eventually just get too soft and/or start breaking down. FWIW, in the bigger picture, the cost of a new pair of Kene's every 3-5 years is probably a bit of a rounding error for most guys.

Yup, I learned that about Vibram Montagna Bloc soles with my first pair in about '67 and won't wear them in cold snow because they can be dangerous.

My Scarpa Concordias have a rand and, even with the utmost caution in treating them with Obenauf's LP, it still loosened and is a real beotch to glue so it stays where it was placed. I had these boots, thoroughly waxed with Obie's in Sept. 2006 and we drove into "The Flathead" from Vancouver, on opening day. There was a very severe snow and ice storm and we went hiking up a century-old trail on some tracks....these fine boots got wet in the moderately damp (for BC) snow and my feet were damned cold.

So, I still prefer something like the FGLS as I have fewer wet outs and better fit-support with them. But, I gotta agree on boot weight and I wish I could wear the lighter ones in most conditions.

I had this pair of Raichles, about 2000,lasted just under two years, but, they had a sole of some black goop that stuck like schit to a blanket and even a gimpy old phart like me could really climb slick rocks wearing them.

There really is no "perfect" or "best" boot, my preferences tend to agree with Evans, I hate wearing "corks" unless I have to and I have worn my share of them. I also have and tried the various "Claws" soles and am pretty much blase about them, especially in deep mud and,again, on frozen snow.

I listened to EdT and bought some of these Kahtoola alloy crampons and I wish I had had these when I started this stuff, very good for old guys with bum legs and packs.

Kutenay,

I used Obenaufs Oil and LP exclusively after learning about them either here or on Kifaru. They are high quality leather conditioners, but as I understand it they are mink oil derivatives and, as such, will eventually delaminate the rubber rand material from the boot. Plus, I think it had a tendency to soften leather a little too much.

Not wanting another delaminations issue, I was assured by Joe at Kenetrek that the boot wax they throw in with their boots wouldn't just do the same. If memory serves it has a fair amount of beeswax and vegetable oil. It seems to work fairly well at keeping the leather conditioned and supportive when applied judiciously. I don't overdo it. I don't think there is a whole lot of sense in weighing a lightweight pair of "waterproof" boots down 5 lbs. of leather conditioner. It a potent sweet smell too it - though not entirely unpleasant, that is not soon diminished.

You might give it a shot if you decide to go ahead the a pair of Kene Teni's.

Allen

Obie's has beeswax and propolis, a derivative of the bees "comb" and no mink oil. I think that you are thinking of "Montana Pitch Blend", another US-made H2O-"proofer" and one I have used a lot.

It WILL add a hard "glaze" to any leather and I like it for knife sheaths, belts and any other such items, but, prefer Obie's for boots. Any wax or oil will eventually tend to loosen rubber rands and I totally agree on amounts of this on your boots.

I just saw, somewhere, a boot with an "eVent" lining and that really does interest me, as my experience with this material ahs been just outstanding. I am past winter N. 3, wearing an ID "Thruhiker" everyday in Vancouver and it has been known to "sprinkle" here and not one leak...so, like most gear, we may yet see advances that will make things easier.

I intend to try the Kene's stuff, I am always interested in better footwear,given the orthopaedic issues I have. I want the "Mountain Safari" boots and then will use their goop on them.

I'm certainly no boot expert here and will give way to most here now but have come to the conclusion, that for me, heavy full-grain leather uppers -- true, stiff and heavy --with a heavy Vibram sole work best. Which I think points to the fact that ultimately individual choice may vary a bit even among knowledgeable trekkers. While I'm not a serious mountain hunter meaning at least an every-year ten day hunt above timber line I have elk hunted in the high places enough in most western states to have seen flimsy synthetic panels wear through on hard scrabble and have glued soles part company with me. I have found insulated boots (not pacs) are something my feet don't need, especially with KOM gaiters. My latest and last pair are Alico Guides at one size above my shoe size; I wear a syn liner and a medium wool sock and add a good extra insole.

These go against my usual aversion to extra weight because they are heavy and some may call them "clunky" but my feet and especially my ankles are happy in them. Prep them with Obenaufs (as I do some of our leather furniture) and they work for me.

FWIW..

The "best" hiking/hunting boots are the ones that fit you, are comfortable, and don't produce blisters.

All the rest is academic (ie., bullchit).

That's my take for me but comimg from you I'll take it as gospel..

George, my comments were tagged on to yours, not a response to what you wrote.

I get "tired" of these wearisome threads where tablets are brought down from the mountain proclaiming "the best."

There is no such thing, just what works for a given individual.

Great construction is wonderful... but if it's uncomfortable it's moot.

I'll take lesser construction that's comfortable if forced to chose.

I used to feel the same way. Now Danners cause my toes to go numb. I had to switch. Lowa's have served me well for the last few years.