Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Synthetic Sleeping Bag

Insulation is created by loft, which is "dead air" space. Synthetics retain loft, even when wet. Down compresses when wet and eliminates "dead air" space. Kind of like - "this is your brain, these are drugs ..... sizzle, sizzle ..... this is your brain on drugs" - sort of thing.

I have each of Mountain Hardwear's flagship 15-degree bags - a 2006-vintage Phantom 15 and a Ultralamina 15 from last summer. The phantom with its single zip is easier to drive, and the down is more comfortable and a touch warmer overall. Nothing wrong with the ultralamina though, apart from some really flappy nylon strips along the zippers that will jam the zippers if you don't hold your mouth just right while zipping. Deciding which to use really is a coin toss, with the edge going to the phantom in cooler weather.

By the grace of God, I've managed to keep from getting wet and dying while using the down bag. I've used it for three sheep hunts and three moose hunts, and a couple of wet muley hunts in WA. Having packed in continuous drizzle for many hours on a couple of these hunts, I remain convinced of two things:

1. Gear stays dryer in a floorless tent. Condensation drip or minor leakage in a floored tent will eventually wet out the floor, and this does not happen with floorless (I've not had the opportunity or need to camp on wet tundra or alpine sponge).
2. With todays UL roll-top drybags and DWR treatments on bag shells, you really have to try with effort to get your bag wet. UL roll-top drybags make great pillows, too.

Prior to 2006 I used an REI polar pod 20F. It was colder and about 1.5lbs heavier than either MH bag.

I'm still hanging onto synthetic bags, and almost always choose north face as being the best blend of weight / quality / price. They're a good value.

However, the REALLY oustanding performance of DWR treatments hasn't been lost on me. The material we use on the Mountain Serape will literally hold water suspended above a cup without wetting out for hours at a time. And that's nothing more than a tight weave plus a DWR treatment. I don't know how long it will keep that kind of performance, but it does have me considering down insulation much more seriously than I have in the past.

After being the unfortunate victim of some pretty severe wind storms over the years - whereas expedition quality mountaineering tents literally blew apart and exposed me to some rather wet conditions - I've chosen to stick with synthetics, too.

I have and have had a number of highend bags of both types and I prefer down in REAL cold, as it stays dry.

However, I have survived a close call or two in the BC mountains and I will not go out without a synthetic bag, bivy, tarp and 3/4 pad, any time of year here. If, I am alone, I will ONLY use synthetic bag(s),eVent shells and merino woolen clothing as people die, regularly, within sight of where I am sitting and a 20 min. drive from my urban house.

The last was just two weeks ago and most of these are younger guys, with some experience, but, they NEVER listen to any advice from the staff at the parks around Vancouver.......

Above or away from treeline, I tend to be VERY particular about where I pitch my tent. High saddles or exposed places are to be avoided, unless they afford lots of rock of suitable size for sturdy and substantial windbreak construction. All part of the game.

Precisely. Back in 1971, while on a September Dall sheep hunt in the Chugach Range, I learned real quick everything there is to know about choosing a tent location. That trip was a real learning curve, in that sense. Killed a great ram, though.

Thanks for all of your opinions. As for synthetic bags I am looking at the Mountain Hardwear Ultra lamina 0 or 15, Cats Meow 15 and the ID renaisance.
What are your thoughts. Again, I can't find a site that sells the ID bags.

IDm no question, among the finest serious mountain gear I have ever used.

Call Evan Jones, 403-640-1445 in Calgary, AB, "Mountain Time" and ask him about selling you a bag directly from his "tactical" line.

www.integraltactical.com---DO NOT buy the "ID" branded stuff now made by "Rab", trust me on this.

Tell Evan that Dewey sent you and while he is a blunt guy with no "softsoap" BS about anything, he makes bloody good gear and can either sell direct or tell you which US dealer to get it from.

Hope this helps, I may well buy a Renaissance myself as my wife is eyeing my North Twin combo if she can come camping later this year. A bit more coin than some, but, worth the price in the way that McHale, Mystery Ranch and Hilleberg gear is.

Good choices.

My ramble on the topic in general: For your use in Colorado, the ability of the bag to retain loft (and so warmth) in damp conditions is not as critical. Colorado dries out once in awhile.

The farther west and north of the Cascade Crest you backpack however, the more margin synthetics give you. An important question is how many consecutive nights you plan to sleep in the bag without being able to dry it? Dampness accumulates in unrelieved cold humidity. As was said and said well, it accumulates more in a tent with waterproof floor.

A rule of thumb might be that anywhere dry enough to have mule deer, pine trees or sage should be good for down.

I love down: the feel, drape, warmth, weight and longeivity --- and don't use it at all in coastal backpacking. I have slept in a wet sleeping bag more than once, and when such a bad event happens, I prefer a synthetic.

www.mountaingear.com has a sale going on right now thats not bad. I picked up a Dark Star 0 Synthetic Sleeping Bag. No hassel return.

Hmmm - no mention of wiggys! (Actually there was one, but I'm gathering it was an in-joke?) (And, no - I'm not wiggy, unless he's moved to the UK and taken over my forum name!)

Two - actually four - things have persuaded me to put my money where my mouth is.

1. this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD3wA5Wrcmc
2. Huge amounts of positive references to his kit on the net, even if many don't particularly appreciate his "style" of promoting his bags.
3. his guarantee, which I've never seen any other manufacturer of bags offer or honour - (from his website - WIGGY�S GUARANTEE: Our Guarantee is for a lifetime of use. If a seam opens, the zipper breaks or the Lamilite insulation deteriorates (such as losing its loft or separating, clumping in one place or another), Wiggy�s will repair or replace your bag at no charge to you.)
4. His suggestion that you wash his bags in a machine as often as you like, as this will not only get rid of oils/dirt etc that build up and damage loft, but will restore loft. EVERY other manufacturer I've checked out shies away from this.

Reading back the above, it does look a bit like an advert for wiggys! Maybe I'm trying to convince myself I've made a wise choice:) I'll let you know next year after a trip to Norway in January.

However, the point I was getting at was- am I missing something here? I know he's not universally liked - which may be an understatement - but his bags do seem to be the real deal from virtually everything I've read, and I'm wondering why his bags haven't really come up as a suggestion.

(Nothing like wading into controversy with my first post here!)

Andy,
I have one of Wiggys bags, and moved on because of the weight and bulk. I don't have an "Internet axe to grind" about Wiggy. His best bag is in my basement along with a Kifaru 0 degree Slick bag, and an embarrassingly rich assortment of Western Mountaineering down bags. I much prefer the feel, weight, and performance of down, but Internet chat rooms keep me reaching for the Slick bag when going to Alaska or Canada on sheep trips (two weeks, likely rain daily). Maybe I'll go with a WM Dryloft bag this year in the Yukon?
Don

Well, I experimented with 5 synthetic bags before settling on Wiggys. I like to wash them after a long hunt and they are the warmest bag I tried. The weight it the same as any bag of comparable warmth and the only synthetic bag I found as warm is the northface darkstar which is exactly the same weight. And the wiggys fits in my down bag stuffsack so I dont buy the bulky argument. Of course down is the warmest fill out there. Its just harder to wash and clumps when wet.