Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire another take on pro-choice

Others as in Hitler, Saddam, Mussolini, Stalin, et al? Your post is a cop out.

How different the world would be if SOMEONE spoke up for the Jews of the Holocaust. How about the innocents of this topic? Who will speak up for them?

Glad to hear you are pro life.

Regarding incest...Can we kill the father / brother / grandfather that is the cause of the incestuous child?

Because if we can kill the innocent result, we can kill the guilty cause...right?

It also seems to me that the pro-choice people are the ones that are against the death penalty. Do they really think that it's wrong to kill a killer but ok to kill a baby?



"SUPPORT OUR RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS"

Here is what I would do:

Have a group of doctors make a professional medical determination on when a fetus is viable outside of the womb, even with assistance. Once this is made, that becomes the cut-off for abortion unless the life of the mother is at stake.

In the case of rape and incest, I would hold the same standard. I am sure there will be cases were a woman didn't know she was pregnant until she birthed the child in the toilet. In cases like that, the child could be put up for adoption.

If you don't want/believe in abortion, don't get one. You can live with a clear moral compass. As for the others, its their burden to bear and they will be judged. As of now, it is legal and has stood the scrutiny of law.

I think analogizing abortions with mass genocide is taking it a bit far. We aren't talking about the mass extermination of established human beings by one person. We are talking about a woman's choice to discontinue the biological process of developing a human being. There are other justifiable reasons for homicide by an individual as well.

If the fetus isn't viable, it shouldn't be considered "alive". Think of building a house. At what point during the building process does it become a house? I would certainly not see pouring a foundation as being a house yet.

For those that use the coma/invalid argument, there is opportunity prior for the individual to choose what happens in those events (including do-not-resuscitate decisions). In my state, we have a death with dignity law. It is the CHOICE to allow the medical termination of life.

As it sits right now, these are unprecedented times where more mothers under the age of 35 are having children out of wedlock. I believe that 53% of all children born in the US are now bastards. IIRC, 85% of black babies, 60% of hispanic babies and 35% of white babies are bastards. Not all, but many of these children will be burdens on the rest of us for a long while, if not their whole life course. Don't know what is cheaper, abortion or entitlements.

I don't believe the laws of modern western societies allow that, but the law of God does. By stoning I believe.
Seems appropriate.

I believe it also appropriate letting the family and medical professionals, sans the guilty party if incest, decide if the baby will be carried to term in cases of rape, incest, or questions regarding the mothers ability to survive delivery. Carrying to term and adopting out would seem to me the best choice, but it's not my choice to make. Any other abortions have no mitigation.

If mama puts a baby in a dumpster and it can't save itself... it isn't viable.

If a 1 1/2 year old is left in a hot vehicle and can't get out to save itself... it isn't viable.

If granddad is dropped off and can't find his way home... he isn't viable.

Why should anyone ever be legally responsible for another?

Kent

Maybe the third time will be the charm. Would you be in favor of making abortion illegal EXCEPT in the case of rape, incest, or medical necessity for the life/health of the mother? And sense you made the comment about 'forcing a womant to RAISE that child is very crule to me' I'll ask another question, Do you have any idea how long the wait is to adopt a healthy infant in the United States?

I'll say it again. You kill a woman who is pregnant and you face TWO counts of murder. She murders that same baby and it's "freedom of choice".

Yeah, but you're the one calling it murder. As of now, its a form of justifiable homicide at the worst. Or, an elective medical procedure at best.

And believe me, I'm not pro-abortion and my wife and I would never dream of having one unless her life was in danger. I almost wonder if that would even be the case. I think she'd give her life for her child. Its my biggest fear.

I just can't get excited about legislating values. We all don't share the same values.

You're not going to get an answer. I've been asking these questions to no avail. People keep bringing up rape, incest, and danger to the mother's life as a plausible reason to justify abortion, but they are just distractions. The reality is that these cases are an extremely small percentage of abortions performed, but people continue to bring them up to justify all abortions, which is a completely illogical argument. Many, many pro-lifers would compromise and allow these abortions to be performed in exchange for ending the millions of other abortions performed. They wouldn't like it, but they would make this compromise for the greater good.

Are there fanatics regarding this issue? Of course there are. Unfortunately the only side that gets labeled as a fanatic is the one side willing to compromise. I have met very few pro-choicers who are willing to compromise on this issue. They want abortions to be availabe for any and all women at any time, with no restrictions on fetal development or age of the woman. Hell, they are even against parental notification! Of course many of you will indignantly proclaim that you are not one of those people, but how much energy and time have you put into arguing for parental notification and the ending late term abortions? Certainly not as much time as you have put into arguing for abortion in the case of rape and incest. Heck, I've seen very few of you put much energy into arguing against the type of infanticide that Obama voted "present" for. In addition, For the most part I see the pro-lifers answering direct questions on these posts, the same cannot be said for pro-choicers. Fanaticim? Extremism? You betcha! Or possibly ignoring the tough questions makes it easier to turn a blind eye.

One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned.

Some of you with daughters have spoken and basically said you would want your daughter to get an abortion if she were raped by a black thug, but wouldn't you want to know? Do you think a a young girl capable of making that kind of decision? There are many cases of grown men having sexual relationships with young girls, and the girl becomes pregnant. This is occurring where the man is in his 20's or 30's or even older, and the girl is as young as 12 or 13. This ain't happenong just in the hood either. These men then are taking these girls to have abortions performed. They are not posing as their fathers either. As the girl's father wouldn't you want to be made aware of this? It is rape after all. I hope we can at least agree on this moral standard. There has been a long standing case of this in Kansas where this has been occurring with sickeningly frequency, but everyone turns a blind eye and deaf ear to this.

States call it different things. The point is it's illegal if someone else does it, but the very same outcome, killing the baby, is perfectly legal as long as the mother does it. How does that make ANY sense? How is one act illegal (generally a felony) and the other a 'freedom'? If abortion is legal because "it's not a person" how can people be charged with various types of homicide (or murder in some cases) if "it's not a person"?

I hear what you're saying. You know how these people work. They could justify any number of blasphemies in their own minds. It is what it is I guess.

You are right we don't all place the same value on human life. I presume you meant 'morals'. For some, cursing, consuming alcoholic beverages, the length of a woman's skirt, pornography, sex out of wedlock, etc.. are moral issues. None of us hold the same ideals for those type issues. Protecting innocent human life on the other hand, I would have hoped, would be a universal common value we all shared (as humans and all). Obviously not.
Values are the only thing that ARE legislated. "Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness..." and all that jazz. Morals.... not so much (but constantly debated, yes).

That's the problem. People consider a lot of things "values" because they hold a different "value" on a given subject. Some people just don't value any type of morality.

I may have unsettled a few of these folks when I ask them how they would have liked to have been aborted.

Their body,their choice. That's all I have to say on the subject.

Failed reasoning. By that you are saying that a woman has a (male organ)because she is carrying a male baby and it's "her body".

Any of you abortionists brave enough to search for "Abortion" images on Google yet?

Nazi extermination of many Jews = elective medical procedures.