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Before I forget, Elmer mentions writing for the old OUTDOORSMAN magazine..before my time, but he also wrote for GUNS magazine..I have some old copies somewhere..but I don't remember all the information in them..if I can locate them, I will check them out..good luck!!!!!
Molon Labe
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You might call Rifle Magazine 928- 445- 7810 and ask them to check key words like : 280 OKH or Elmer Keiths 280 , etc . They have everything Computerized and can tell you if there were any Articles on that Subject and which Issue they were in .
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Buckstix.....don't forget, there was also the .333 OKH B ( for belted )....the little brother....approximately 2.5 inch case length...of the full length .334 OKH.
I am looking forward to seeing the chamber casts that you come up with. Thanks.
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I assume the CCC chamber shoulder is Weatherby-like as well. Hello Bandukwallah, Near as I've been able to research, the CCC chamber had a radius on the neck only, not the shoulder. There came a time when this feature brought to the attention of, and was discussed with, Roy Weatherby. As we know, Roy Weatherby figured if one radius was good, two would be better, so he put a radius on both the neck and the shoulder.
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early.
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Thirty years ago I bought a 200 specimen collection of old wildcat cartridges because I was really, really interested in them and had hopes that they would come in handy someday.
Anyway, I have cartridges, said to have been from guns so chambered for the 333,334,33-50,424, and 475 OKH series as well as a 280 Dubiel. Also in the collection was a 30-06 sectioned case with the extended primer tube and attributed to Keith. If you guys want to take a gander, one of you volunteer to post a picture. Make it snappy, though: I'm leaving in the morning for a three day bowfishing safari.
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Campfire Ranger
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email them to rattler_mt  yahoo.com and ill get them up
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Ranger
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JIMFLORAL's pics: left to right. 333 OKH, 334 OKH, 33-50 OKH ( 8mm case), 280 Dubiel, 424 OKH. 475 OKH ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/rattler_mt/other%20ppls%20photos/tn.jpg) The sectioned Springfield case ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/rattler_mt/other%20ppls%20photos/tn1.jpg)
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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JIMFLORAL's pics:
left to right. 333 OKH, 334 OKH, 33-50 OKH ( 8mm case), 280 Dubiel, 424 OKH, 475 OKH, sectioned Springfield case Hello rattler, I hope you don't mind, I was able to shed a little light on these. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/okhs1.jpg)
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early.
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Campfire Ranger
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that does look alot better.....unfortunately i dont have any photo editting software on this computer so i couldnt lighten them up.....damn Photoshop licenses are expensive so i only have the program on the essential computers and back ups here at the office.....this computer only generally gets used for the subscription program as its the oldest in the shop....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Interesting information. The chamber cast will be highly interesting.
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Campfire Ranger
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In Big Game Hinting, I would think if the cartridge had existed there would have been mention of it... Hello HawkI, Thanks for your help. I'm sure there may have been other experimental cartridges that Elmer tried that may not have been mentioned in his books. I've discovered references to 250 OKH, 280 OKH, 285 OKH, 300 OKH, 33 OKH, 333 OKH, 334 OKH, 375 OKH 423 OKH, 426 OKH, 475 OKH, etc. With the 2 specific references discovered so far for the 280 OKH, (1)"Gun Notes: May 1960 issue of GUNS" (2)"Practical Dope on Big Bores: by F.C. Ness, (1948 ed) page 191", I've kept searching. And now I have also found this interesting reference, (3)"Handloader Magazine, Nov-Dec 1966, OKH Cartridges, by Bob Hagel." There is even a picture of the cartridge. This may be the ever elusive 280 OKH. ? ? ![[Linked Image]](http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/7-375.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/7-375a.jpg) I'm sure with continued research, other reference will be discovered. I thank all of you in advance for your continued searching. I'm think it as "experimental" as well. We know that the 280 Dubiel is on the 275 HH case (slightly shorter than full length). Its odd he never "glowingly" wrote about it, at least not so much as the 285, the 280 Dubiel and certainly not the 333. Its odd he talks about both the 280 Dubiel then later the 285 on the '06 case as seemingly "better", but he had no chronograph and 4350 and 4831 powders were just then being adopted. Interesting thread.
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Thanks all for the pics. This is a good thread.
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We know that the 280 Dubiel is on the 275 HH case (slightly shorter than full length). Donnelley page 280, lists the 280 Dubiel case length as 2.87 inches made from the parent case of the 300 H&H. Source is listed as "Dubiel". This is actually 0.02 inches "longer" than the 300 H&H case. I suppose it stretches a little from necking down. The 2 loaded 280 Dubiel cartridges discussed by the "International Ammunition Association" (loaded by John Dubiel and with an original John Dubiel label) are loaded in Western 300 H&H cases. These cases measured 2.86 inches long. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/280dubiel2.jpg) Perhaps we can get JIMFORAL to measure the case length of the 280 Dubiel in his collection.
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Wow, this is really quite a journey, and we're not even talking about YOUR cartridge/rifle!
I have the Donelly book, and that is what he shows to make the 280 Dubiel.
Elmer, in Big Game Rifles and Cartridges goes on to say the 276 Dubiel was on the 275 HH case and his prodding made Dubiel create the 280 Dubiel on the full-length case, even though Capt. Askins and Dubiel found the shorter case to achieve the same ballistics in the 276 cartridge.
Sorry to add to the confusion. Its not helping!
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My 280 Dubiel cartridge, bearing the rare headstamp Hoffman 375 Magnum, has a case length of 2.870.
And if you promise to spell my name right in the future ( everyone wants to spell it with two Ls when there's only one) I'll send rattler more O'Neil/ OKH/ Dubiel cartridge pics. They will be from left to right .25 O'Neil ( 30 Newton case), .25 O'Neil Magnum ( 300 H&H case) .256 OKH ( 7mm Mause case), .276 OKH ( '06 case) and .276 Dubiel Mag. ( 375 H&H case)
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Wow, this is really quite a journey, and we're not even talking about YOUR cartridge/rifle!
I have the Donelly book, and that is what he shows to make the 280 Dubiel. Sorry to add to the confusion. Its not helping! As long as I'm waiting for my Cerrosafe to arrive, we might as well discuss the interesting details of the 280 Dubiel Cartridge, since so little is known about this long ago Super 7mm. Here is another early reference to the 280 Dubiel. This drawing shows the 280 Dubiel Magnum as made by the Neidner Rifle Corporation. It also lists the case length at 2.870 inches. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/diameters.jpg) This drawing is from "Practicle Dope on the Big Bores" by: F. C. Ness, page 192.
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early.
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sorry bout that Jim, sometimes my fingers and brain dont talk to each other very well when im typing  left to right .25 O'Neil ( 30 Newton case), .25 O'Neil Magnum ( 300 H&H case) .256 OKH ( 7mm Mause case), .276 OKH ( '06 case) and .276 Dubiel Mag. ( 375 H&H case) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/rattler_mt/other%20ppls%20photos/tn3.jpg)
Last edited by rattler; 10/09/12.
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I'm sure there may have been other experimental cartridges that Elmer tried that may not have been mentioned in his books. I've kept searching. As my search for information on the 280 OKH cartridge continues, I started keeping track of those references to cartridges with an OKH designation. Here is my list so far. 250 OKH 256 OKH 265 OKH 276 OKH 280 OKH 285 OKH 300 OKH 33 OKH 333 OKH 333 OKH BELTED 334 OKH 334 OKH MAGNUM 350 OKH 375 OKH 423 OKH 426 OKH 475 OKH
You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early.
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Just have to love this topic as when I was a young lad spent quite a bit of time with my father hunting in Western Montana with Charlie O'neil. Still remember them and their discussions of the OKH line of cartridges. That would have been in the 50's and I believe Charlie passed away in the early to mid 60's. A long time ago.
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In the past, I have had a 285 OKH, a 333 OKH, a 333OKH Belted, and a 424 OKH. The only one I still have is the 424 OKH.
The first was on the 06 case, the second on the 06 case, the third on the 275 Magnum case, and the last on the 375 Magnum case. O'Neil also had a 424 on a short case, but he wrote that he would recommend the long case. He at one time made a 333 on the 57mm case, but I never saw one.
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