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My "room" is on the west side of the house. Three scopes in my desk drawer as I type. A few days ago, I tested them on an object about 80-90 yards away as the low sun got really close to said object. (That is about as far as I can see for the trees.)
3-9 Leupold Ultralight AO - no fade or white out.
3X M8 same.
Vintage Weaver 2.5-5 failed as it blanked out.
The UL has a reputation for flare outs on this forum. Mine did not, and it is a good twenty years old. I think it goes back on the .243. Perhaps makers have a better handle on whatever causes this.
I have never had an urge to use S & B. Too expensive for sure. I get along pretty good with less costly scopes. jack
"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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I have never had an urge to use S & B. Too expensive for sure. I get along pretty good with less costly scopes.
They are expensive. No argument from me on that. And for lots of folks, especially when shooting at shorter ranges (inside 300), they are hard to justify cost-wise. However, when you are presented with a longer shot you want to take-especially on game (on the last day of a western hunt for example), the confidence of being able to dial in the range and be absolutely confident of the result is impossible to duplicate. Don't get me wrong, I've connected on game at longer ranges with other scopes- but not with the absolute certainty that I have with my PMII. In my view, S&B are not interested in volume, market share, etc like most other scope companies. They will make as many scopes as they can make without sacrificing quality and will raise the price accordingly to control demand. I have a blue collar job like lots of folks on here and it's not easy to come up with an extra grand for a rifle scope. But in some cases, expensive things are worth the money, and, for me, these things are worth every penny.
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My problem with S&B is that they don't make a hunting scope with an elevation turret that can get you past 3.2 mrad (11 MOA). Thats good for about 500 yards/meters which won't cut it. The 10X PMII will fit the bill if you can settle for a fixed 10X but I can't settle.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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"veiling glare" is the term you are describing...
it forms as a strong haze over the image that washes it out and takes contrast away....like if you turn the brightness up all the way on a TV or computer monitor
most really good scopes prevent with this with good baffling and painting the edges of glass etc.... it happens in binoculars as well
even a zeiss conquest level scope should handle that pretty easily..
i dont see it in my swarovski but ill be honest i havent seen it from any scope in awhile, any scopes with 300-400 price tag and up at least
Im sure the new hi tech Leupold reticles made with "Electra-Form"tm Technology, has taken care of the problem......... 
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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My problem with S&B is that they don't make a hunting scope with an elevation turret that can get you past 3.2 mrad (11 MOA). Thats good for about 500 yards/meters which won't cut it. The 10X PMII will fit the bill if you can settle for a fixed 10X but I can't settle. Go to the PM II scopes; all of them are heavy when compared to other scopes (except Nightforce and US Optics). You can hunt with a tactical scope...really, you can. I have a S&B 4-16x50 PM II that I use for hunting.
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Praise the lord that my 6-24X56 zeiss is "good enough" for me.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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"veiling glare" is the term you are describing...
it forms as a strong haze over the image that washes it out and takes contrast away....like if you turn the brightness up all the way on a TV or computer monitor
most really good scopes prevent with this with good baffling and painting the edges of glass etc.... it happens in binoculars as well
even a zeiss conquest level scope should handle that pretty easily..
i dont see it in my swarovski but ill be honest i havent seen it from any scope in awhile, any scopes with 300-400 price tag and up at least
Im sure the new hi tech Leupold reticles made with "Electra-Form"tm Technology, has taken care of the problem......... Don't know why folks have a tough time seeing this happen.I saw it again just yesterday on deer stand with a Leupold variable.....complete "glare out" as I looked into deep shadow with the sun just clearing the tree tops facing east. I know it isn't a real test but I raised my Swaro 8x30 bins and looked in the same spot.....I could "see" with those.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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BBobinNH, Don't know why folks have a tough time seeing this happen.I saw it again just yesterday on deer stand with a Leupold variable.....complete "glare out" as I looked into deep shadow with the sun just clearing the tree tops facing east.
I know it isn't a real test but I raised my Swaro 8x30 bins and looked in the same spot.....I could "see" with those. Did you and I graduate from the same optics school?  We both compare our optics with our optics; whatever they are. 
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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RD: Nope.  ..seen it quite a few times out west with a rising or setting sun and slopes in deep shadow,against strong background light. It's a tough condition;the scopes just fade out and you really can't see into the shadow.Plus you lose not only the reticle,but the sigt pic as well.....like the chap says the scope just flares out. Will a scope shade work? Re: the military using S&B and Bushnell, appreciate them using quality products, disappointed a USA mfg did not win, and more importantly the reasons why...... Bobin, not a 6x, but you may know Leupold has an FXII 8x40 AO w/target knobs....duplex, though mines looks a little wide ...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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BBobinNH, Don't know why folks have a tough time seeing this happen.I saw it again just yesterday on deer stand with a Leupold variable.....complete "glare out" as I looked into deep shadow with the sun just clearing the tree tops facing east.
I know it isn't a real test but I raised my Swaro 8x30 bins and looked in the same spot.....I could "see" with those. Did you and I graduate from the same optics school? We both compare our optics with our optics; whatever they are. Ringman I guess so! I was in central NH and really had not much else to use at the time.That sun just cleared the tree tops,and ,remembering this thread,it occured to me look over there through the scope.Then I thought i wonder if the bins will cut through that glare.You could still see the effects of the sun, but the Swaro cut through it so I could see. I have run the same kind of "test" at the range, waiting for barrels to cool,and the Schmidt managed the situation better...why I don't pretend to know.Baffling to reduve glare? better glass? Not sure.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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65: Yes I think a sun shade would do the trick....when I held my hand over the objective lense to block the light,the view was fine.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,743
Campfire Outfitter
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Don't know why folks have a tough time seeing this happen.I saw it again just yesterday on deer stand with a Leupold variable.....complete "glare out" as I looked into deep shadow with the sun just clearing the tree tops facing east.
I know it isn't a real test but I raised my Swaro 8x30 bins and looked in the same spot.....I could "see" with those.
You ever get around too trying that with your Summit Bob. I'd be interested in your thoughts. dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dave we were posting the same time Yes I have tried it with the Summit....late afternoon at the range as the sun nears the tree tops puts the 600 yard line in deep shadow....here and there I have played with the Summit and several other scopes, including Zeiss fixed 4X,Kahles 3,5-10x50,Swaro PH,Leupold fixed,VX3,VX II,and a bunch of others. The S&B,Kahles,and Swaro are fabulous and do cut through the glare,and hard for me to tell them apart.You know the glare is there but can still see pretty good through them. Kahles glass is very good to my eyes,but so isn't S&B,Zeiss, and Swaro. The funny thing about the Summit is this.....in good light it looks pretty "ordinary"....but when the conditions change and lighting gets bad,it just continues to get "better" and just won't quit on you.....Don't know how else to describe it.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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....but when the conditions change and lighting gets bad,it just continues to get "better" and just won't quit on you.....Don't know how else to describe it.
Pretty good description. Thats what just about anyone will say after they spend any time with the Schmidt.. dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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I have never had an urge to use S & B. Too expensive for sure. I get along pretty good with less costly scopes.
They are expensive. No argument from me on that. And for lots of folks, especially when shooting at shorter ranges (inside 300), they are hard to justify cost-wise. However, when you are presented with a longer shot you want to take-especially on game (on the last day of a western hunt for example), the confidence of being able to dial in the range and be absolutely confident of the result is impossible to duplicate. Don't get me wrong, I've connected on game at longer ranges with other scopes- but not with the absolute certainty that I have with my PMII. In my view, S&B are not interested in volume, market share, etc like most other scope companies. They will make as many scopes as they can make without sacrificing quality and will raise the price accordingly to control demand. I have a blue collar job like lots of folks on here and it's not easy to come up with an extra grand for a rifle scope. But in some cases, expensive things are worth the money, and, for me, these things are worth every penny. You're making me feel guilty bro........grin!
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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You're making me feel guilty bro........grin!
You should! Looking through yours got me hooked! And after this fall, I can say I'm truly addicted!
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Lets chase some black bears next spring......
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Deal!
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No, but I took my PF8x56 Swarovski out for the first time Saturday evening, unbelievable low light performance.
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