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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
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Use a S&W 500 Magnum and get the best of both worlds whether it expands or not.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Been my experience with 45's, 50's, 20 gauges and 12 gauges.
Of course ranges and impact speed matters when we expect a grenade and get a semi-round nose....
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I concur completely on range mattering, but I missed what you meant by expecting a grenade and get a semi-round nose.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Or a .480 Ruger, and have less recoil 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Or a .480 Ruger, and have less recoil The S&W 500 is waaaay overrated on felt recoil. There are tales of horror on the internet about the devastating recoil of the S&W 500, and we all know if it's on da innanet it's gotta be true. In reality, a heavy bullet loaded hot in a .44 Magnum has a much sharper felt recoil than my 6.5" barreled S&W 500 Magnum. Heck, even factory 240 grain loads in the .44 Magnum have more felt recoil to me than 500 grain factory loads shot from my 500 Magnum.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,034 Likes: 41
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,034 Likes: 41 |
Or a .480 Ruger, and have less recoil The S&W 500 is waaaay overrated on felt recoil. There are tales of horror on the internet about the devastating recoil of the S&W 500, and we all know if it's on da innanet it's gotta be true. In reality, a heavy bullet loaded hot in a .44 Magnum has a much sharper felt recoil than my 6.5" barreled S&W 500 Magnum. Heck, even factory 240 grain loads in the .44 Magnum have more felt recoil to me than 500 grain factory loads shot from my 500 Magnum. Everybody feels recoil differently. I've owned 3 500 smiths, multiple 44 mags and a host of other large bore revolvers. I would take a hot 44 mag or 45 colt any day over the 500 smith in terms of felt recoil to me.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005 |
OK... This is a pic of my new project bullet... an LBT WFN bullet adapted by Erik at hollowpointbullets.com with his unique design. Sorry for the lousy quality of the cellphone pic. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb332/DocDarkside/WFN-HP270gr.jpg) The HP cavity is conical, about 1/2" deep. The HP cavity displaces about 30 gr of lead, so the nominal 300 gr mould throws 270 gr HP bullets. Accuracy potential is, so far, very good. Which means that the HP cavities in Erik's design are concentric. At this point I'm working with two loads, one at about 920 fps, and the other at about 1150 fps, trying to find the right alloy for accuracy plus expansion potential at that velocity. I've got a [bleep] of gallon milk jugs saved up for the expansion tests. Probably won't get around to doing those tests until February, though... gotta lotta hunting to do right now, so ammo and load development is on a backburner for a bit yet. Doc, please post your results when you get around to testing the new 10mm hard cast HP bullet. Looks to be a great 10mm hunting bullet! Should works great in my Glock 20 that I normally carry while bow hunting in NM & CO. Well, it might be a while getting those results posted, as I'm working with a .45 caliber HP bullet, not a 10mm!!  But I have no doubt that the 10mm/40 cal bullet I posted the link to will be a devastating hunting bullet. I've had a notion to build a hunting pistol on an EAA/Tanfoglio Witness platform for years, but just haven't got around to it. I really, really like the ballistics of the 10mm, and if one had a big pistol like that with a good scope, you'd have possibly the ultimate hunting handgun for anything from up-close-pig-stickin' to cornfield-drive running deer shots. Now that you've got me thinking about it again, I may have to see what I can do about reviving that project!
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Magnum, my only issue with the .500 smith is that it's just huge. Some point after a super redhawk it just became something else. I guess if I was over 7' feet or so. Lol. I just think the whole X frame cylinder etc stopped being a handgun when a two point sling is added from the factory. You might as well have a carbine of some sort. In factory guns, if I "want" power, the Casull or stout .45lc is plenty while still being "handgun size".
Doc, I may have to get that mold. I don't even have a 10mm yet. But there's nothing wrong with getting ready. Lol. In the meantime the .40 could try some.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,517 |
The "perfect" huntin bullet would always hit where you wanted it AND expend all of it's energy 1" outside the far side hide!
No matter what range!
Anything more is a waste of energy and meat.
That said it always comes back to one:
.22 long rifle
Critters take a step at most and fall dead.
"wanna hear God laugh? Tell Him you have complete control now!"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
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Doc, I may have to get that mold. I don't even have a 10mm yet. But there's nothing wrong with getting ready. Lol. In the meantime the .40 could try some. Now you're talking.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
Magnum, my only issue with the .500 smith is that it's just huge. Some point after a super redhawk it just became something else. I guess if I was over 7' feet or so. Lol. I just think the whole X frame cylinder etc stopped being a handgun when a two point sling is added from the factory. You might as well have a carbine of some sort. In factory guns, if I "want" power, the Casull or stout .45lc is plenty while still being "handgun size".
Doc, I may have to get that mold. I don't even have a 10mm yet. But there's nothing wrong with getting ready. Lol. In the meantime the .40 could try some. It is big...no way of getting around that. But I don't have the short butt-stock rifle they call the 460 XVR with a 14" barrel and a two-point sling to match; that is a hand-rifle, on the same order that Thompson Contenders and Encores are hand-rifles and not handguns in the traditional sense. My revolver has no sling swivel attached to it and it only has a 6.5" barrel. Yeah, it's big, but it's still a handgun, not a hand-rifle. I'm 6'2", 240 lbs and I don't feel the handgun is too big for me to carry or shoot.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3 |
I concur completely on range mattering, but I missed what you meant by expecting a grenade and get a semi-round nose. A JSP, on the left, at 1,000 fps impact speed on dry print. I did this since I finished off a critter at close range with the same bullet (not recovered) and noticed that magical expanding bullets don't always work like they do in the ads. ![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff127/nkhoff/100_1323.jpg)
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3 |
Or the wonderful Hornady XTP. ![[Linked Image]](http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff127/nkhoff/100_1333.jpg) The bullet on the left is a 1/2 wheelweight, 1/2 pure lead softnose; both hit at 950 fps, or about the speed at 50 yards started out at 1,000-1,050 fps..
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005 |
Hawk1... you do know that HP bullets expand primarily due to buildup of fluid pressure in the nose cavity, right? And as such firing them into non-fluid mediums like dry newsprint will result in failure to expand more often than not, right?
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,760 |
OK, all things being equal, say a .44 mag with 240 grain bullets at the same velocity which do you find more important? Penetration from a Keith style bullet or expansion from a JHP (say an xtp. Disclaimer, this would be used on whitetails nothing bigger. Speaking in terms of hunting whitetail deer with a 44 magnum handgun; grab a 50 round box of Black Hills 240 grain JHP, which are loaded with the XTP @ 1260fps, and you should see outstanding accuracy and dependable performance straight out the box. If you have any issue killing whitetail deer, it will be due to shot placement and not bullet performance. My two cents, save the big end cast bullets for larger game, unless you need one load to cover medium and large game at the same time. Nothing wrong with Keith loads, but they're not as stout as the big loads for big stuff, and I seriously doubt you'd kill deer any more reliably than with the XTP. Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3 |
Kind of, they primarily rely on impact (think FTX, the same essential bullet as the XTP with a "dry" soft plastic tip) and a soft alloy doesn't even need a hollow point or fluid pressure.
I agree though, that harder mediums like wood, bone and dry print isn't very good for expanders.
The same two bullets didn't appear to expand for me on deer as well, but not having recovered them, I didn't know for certain.
Note the JSP didn't seem to expand, either, where there is no place for fluid pressure.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3 |
Most hollow point handgun bullets are pure lead cores with skived, thinly jacketed compromised (pre-weakened) tips. They are designed as light as possible because even the thinnest gilding metal is a real bitch to make peel at handgun impact speeds. That metal is always harder than lead. The bonded/plated ones are a tad softer than gilding metal.
Even in non-forgiving mediums (mediums that supply enough force to give a jacket no place to go), a soft enough alloy doesn't care, where it matters to a jacketed bullet, be it JSP or hollow point.
Last edited by HawkI; 12/08/12.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,937 Likes: 54 |
OK, all things being equal, say a .44 mag with 240 grain bullets at the same velocity which do you find more important? Penetration from a Keith style bullet or expansion from a JHP (say an xtp. Disclaimer, this would be used on whitetails nothing bigger. Since handguns lack the advantages of high powered rifles (e.g., hydrostatic shock induced wound cavity and enough power for both expansion and penetration with the use of premium bullets), you really have to like the deep penetration philosophy for handguns, relying on sectional density and a destructive meplat for maximum tissue destruction and blood loss.
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