Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 300 AAC BLACKOUT.....6.8SPC all over again?

I can't see the point of this .30BO.

A .243 is a far better youth rifle. The recoil should not be a problem and you can even use it as an adult. Or at long range.

For short range deer in the brush there are far better choices.

As for using a suppressor, what reasonable application would there be that would justify the extra weight of the thing and pay for it with a lousy trajectory?

That leaves the same old quest for a higher power round in an AR platform. But why? The AR platform is a lousy one for hunting because you can't carry it in one hand at the point of balance (magazine sticks out) unless you keep the handle on the top. And if you do keep the handle on the top, you can't shoot it with a scope very well. The scope becomes too high for a good cheek weld on the stock.

I can see only two places where the AR platform might be the best choice: (a) personal defense and (b) CMP High Power matches. For the first, the .223 round is perfectly adequate and for the second it is required. For hunting it might be the best choice for open country shots on running varmints, or for carrying in your pickup because there is no walnut stock to get dinged up.

That pretty much leaves us with rifle looneys wanting to try something new. No problem with that, but unless there is some compelling reason, interest in the cartridge will soon fade, and it will go the way of all the other .30 caliber cartridges introduced in the last 10 years.

The 7.62x39 and the 5.56 are not popular because they are the best for anything. They are popular because they are needed for some popular rifles. the .30BO has no such advantage.

I have never heard this. Can you explain it to me.

A faster twist produces more centrifugal force on the bullet, which helps expanding bullets open up, even at slower velocities.

Last year I was shooting prairie dogs with a buddy. We were both shooting the same plastic-tipped 55-grain .224 bullet, but he was shooting a .223 with a 1-8 twist and I was shooting a .220 Swift with a 1-14 twist. Despite the much higher muzzle velocity of the Swift, the .223's bullets did a LOT more damage to the dogs.

Interesting. Thanks for the lesson.

It wasn't brought out for hunting. It's purpose is to offer better terminal ballistics, longer range, and and increased barrier penetration, and suppression compared to short barreled 5.56 guns and and 9mm subguns.

That's just my point. What good is it?

Better terminal ballistics? If it's subsonic, it's trajectory is like a baseball. If not subsonic, there's no point in suppression.

What good is suppression anyway, by the time you pay for the class III license and hang a heavy can on the muzzle? Does that make it muzzle heavy?

If you want "better terminal ballistics, longer range, and and increased barrier penetration," there's a thing called a .308. Or a 30-40 Krag, for that matter.

There are some things best left out of an AR platform.

IndyCA35, why do you opine about stuff you obviously haven't the first clue about? Your last two posts are fraught with ignorance.

You don't need a class III license to own a suppressor. It's only an NFA stamp.

Yes, AR-15's are quite easy to hold with one hand. Ask any soldier carrying an M4 or A4 the past decade or any hunter that uses an A4/M4 style AR.

Yes, suppressors have a place in hunting. That is why dozens of states have legalized it. In the East where woodlots may be close to houses, people prefer to not wake up the neighbors with a .270 Win going off at 7 am on a Sunday.

Yes, AR's are practical for hunting. They have become the weapon of choice for Coyote and especially hog hunters.

Not everyone hunts like you, hunts the same thing as you or is restricted by draconian laws, like you may be.

Yes, the .300BO has a niche, it's called suppressor hunting. It fills that niche admirably, though I disagree with the marketing rep who resuscitated this thread after half a year, in that it is not a very good all around cartridge. But that's the beauty of the AR. I can have .300BO, 6.8spc and 5.56 uppers for a single receiver if I so choose.

Foxbat,

I'll concede your point about silencers. I admit I've never had one or checked the laws closely. I'd heard trhey were "illegal." Guess I was wrong.

But who cares? A "big game" (or small game) cartridge with an MV less than 1100 fps is pretty pathetic. What good is it? The table you posted said the maximum PB range is only 108 yards. You'd probably have to use a rangefinder to hit something at 125 or 150 yards.

And how many people care about sound suppressed hunting anyway? For the last 118 years it has been easy to load a 30-30 to subsonic speeds. For the past 120 years 220 grain bullets have been available (though they might not stabilize in a 30-30). If you really needed a 220 grain subsonic bullet, though, what's wrong with putting a suppressor on an 1873 Winchester lever action (use a replica, please)? I think 1873 Winchesters have been around for about 139 years.

So why didn't someone do this--a sound suppressed hunting rifle--before? Answer: No need.

And I don't think you CAN carry an AR15 with one hand at the point of balance unless it has the carrying handle on it, per the original M16 style. Otherwise the protruding magazine gets in the way. That makes it an iron sight only proposition because the scope must be mounted atop the carrying handle, making it at least 1.5" too high to get a decent cheek position.

The nice thing about an AR, as you noted, is you can change uppers. If you get a .223 upper with a 7.7 inch twist you can shoot 75 grain Hornadys and 77 grain Sierras. Either way, their sectional density and ballistic coefficient is a lot better than the .30BO's 125 grain bullet, let alone a Barnes 110 grain bullet. In fact it's comparable to a 150 grain .30 bullet. And you can launch it at 2700 fps instead of a puny 2200 fps.

That means that the .223 (or 5.56x45mm) is a better long range proposition, bucks the wind better, and, with superior sectional density, penetrates barriers better if the bullets are well constructed.

I cannot see the slightest advantage to the .30BO for anything. I think it's one of those "planned obsolescence" attempts on the part of the industry to compensate for their problem that a firearm will last 100 years or so.

I think of the .30BO as sort of a fad, like Mossberg putting green "zombie" decals on their faux-"tacticool" rifles.

In the AR platform, the .223 caliber beats the .30BO in all categories except subsonic squib loads.

And if anyone is really concerned about noise, they can get a .22 Long Rifle upper for an AR15. Ammo's cheaper too.

Pretty good article in American Rifleman a couple of months back for people who aren't sure whether the Whisper and Blackout are the same cartridge. They laid out some facts, shot some guns, and quoted both makers.

Regardless of who invented it, I am pretty close to ordering a 10-12" Contender barrel in that round. With a threaded muzzle. The .300 whatever will outshoot a .30-30 in a pistol, with a lot less felt recoil, and the suppressor will only improve accuracy by making it muzzle heavy and quiet. It looks like a really good hunting pistol round to me.

I see no reason for a bolt action rifle in any pistol round, but that doesn't keep Ruger from selling .357 Magnum bolt actions. So, buy it if you like it and if you don't, buy something else. And go shooting.

I hunt with an AR, I'm not guessing. I own a suppressor(legally), I'm not guessing.

I own Sako 85's, a Nosler 48, Remington Ti's and a Cooper. I can hunt with some of the finest production rifles there are, and do, but guess what I use for hog and coyote hunting? one of my 6.8spc AR's. The 6.8 in the AR platform is absolutely the finest hog rifle ever invented.

Wrap your fingers around an AR magwell, palm over the ejection port and thumb over the receiver top/handguard. Depending on barrel/stock weight just like any bolt action, they balance just fine. I carry them that way all the time hog hunting.

No one using a .300BO for suppressor hunting, is shooting long range. The average deer shot in the Eastern U.S. is shot inside 70 yards. Most areas where a suppressor is going to be used, inside 50 yards.

I won't argue the .300BO has great ballistics, it doesn't, which I already pointed out. It is strictly a niche round for suppressor hunting IMO. It just happens to be (along with it's brother, the .300 Whisper) the easiest AR round to set up for subsonic hunting. There is only one way to make up for low velocity... heavy bullets. You can make any AR round south of the 6.8 subsonic, but at that velocity, they just don't have the asz to take down most game at 50 yards.



It's just become legal in many states to hunt, in the past decade.

It's not just hunting that is the draw for suppressors, I can walk out in my back yard and shoot suppressed .22LR's or even subsonic 5.56's all day. My neighbors would be annoyed with I did that with unsuppressed 5.56, but it's completely legal and I'm not disturbing anyone.

And just to counter the heavy barrel issue. My Gemtech weighs 13 oz. My 6.8spc Wilson bbl weighs 25oz.

My hog hunting rig, suppressed, weighs less barrel forward than a 24" sporter barrel for a bolt action.

I have been hunting deer with a 300 whisper for 12 years and my Noveske AR in 300 Blackout for a year. I am a farmer and have damage permits to shoot deer year round. I have shot many many deer during the last 12 years. Seven this fall, all with the Blackout suppressed. Range has been from 20-185 yards. Every last one has been shot using the suppressor. I have so far never recovered a bullet. Everyone has been a pass through. I have also never lost a deer. Tell me they don't have enough whump yet the bullet goes clean through at 185 yds. Geez Louise, how much killing does a deer need? As far as carrying. Ever heard of a two point sling? Muzzle is down nice and safe and comes right up to the shoulder for snap shooting. I think a lot of the negative posts are from folks that don't hunt a lot. Hundreds of deer later, I know what my blackout will do.

Very cool, Matineta. That 185 yard shot must have been a sight. Must have resembled the old eephus pitch.

Too bad we can't hunt deer in my state with a suppressor, only yotes and hogs.

Lot's of inaccuracies in the posts by IndyCA35, and I won't even bother to refute them. The test results are all available on the AAC website. If he's too lazy to look, or too stupid to understand them, I cannot fix it.

Besides suppressed hunting, a lot of deer and hog hunting is done at close range, where fast follow-up shots are sometimes needed. The Blackout with supersonic loads fits the bill well.

Think of the Blackout AR15 as a semi-auto Winchester M94

Or a 7.62x39 AR15 that doesn't break bolts or fail to feed

Or as an accurate Ruger Mini-30

With supersonics, 2.5" high at 100 is 2.5" low at 200.

Not flat, but I can live with it for short range hunting.

I care about suppressed hunting rifles for a couple of reasons.

1. I hunt some locations that are suburban. Reducing and changing the sound signature helps keep Mrs. Kravitz from across the street from complaining.

2. I like my hearing and want to be able to hear my grandchildren.

3. By reducing the muzzleblast the deer are "confused" as to which way the sound came from, which allows for follow up shots on deer #2 & #3.

Thanks for your interest in the topic though.

Martin said all those shots were suppressed, so I was assuming subsonic. Just an assumption on my part.

Well sir, I looked on the AAC web site and it does not seem to mention the .300 BO or whatever it's called. I was looking for a set of ballistic tables out to 300 yards. The data I posted was from Foxbat's post and from the Hornady reloading handbook.

So call someone else stupid and lazy, please. Or cite the inaccuracies if you can find any.

A couple of comments. If you're surrounded by subdivisions, you don't want a big bullet going several hundred feet per second because it will ricochet. Mrs. Kravitz will be a lot more upset when a bullet smashes through her window than by hearing the crack of a high velocity bullet that explodes on impact.

I'm a trophy hunter, not a cull hunter. Usually I don't have the opportunity or inclination to shoot does in the head at 185 yards because I don't like to wound game. Almost any pistol caliber would probably work as well for that shot.

Often deer and hogs are at short range. But sometimes they're not. Why not shoot something you can use for all game encountered?

The comment about the suppressor confusing the deer is true. South Africans use suppressors on high velocity rifles for just this reason.

The AR with a .300 supersonic bullet is sort of like a semiautomatic Winchester 94 in 30-30, you said. True but I'm not sure it's much of an improvement--or any faster when push comes to shove.

It's STILL hard to carry an AR15 with one hand at the point of balance. If that were not true, why did Mr. Stoner put a carrying handle on the M16 in the first place?

Yes. I understood that too. I just wanted to interject that the supersonic trajectory was not all that bad, for some applications.

Well my experience has been positive with Whisper.