Here's the deal on the parallax issue- I have had several people dismiss parallax as a factor in longer range shooting, and I could never see why. To me, it's just another way to tweak accuracy at little expense, no extra weight or technology. I have taken to sending my Leupold scopes back to the factory to be parallax adjusted at 400 yards, and they come back with little parallax at any normal range. I have been dissappointed in how much parallax they have straight from the factory. So, in short, it was more of a question to see if I was wrong about the importance of parallax and if someone could demonstrate that fact.
Had an M8 8x36 non ao once, OEM was 300 yds IIRC, normal scopes it's half.
Shooting SMALL tight groups at closer ranges was not it's forte, b/c you could see a little parallax. Royce what scopes are you referring to in the Leupy? Power?
As to how many shots I fire for groups on paper, always found that a rifle that is accurate will fire consistently accurate 3 shot groups that tells me what I want, as Scott says, the first shot is what matters most.
NEVER shot a 3 shot much less 5 shot 'group' on an animal
That said, I can fire say 5 3-shot groups allowing cooling, vs. three 5-shot groups during the same time. I like that...also I consider the higher heat of 5 shots in a sporter vs 3 and how that affects throat wear. I don't want to wear more than necessary.
Alan, no doubt, I often pick days that are not only Calm, but Cold/cool as well, feeling it reduces time for bbl cooling, and the bbl does not get as hot as easily in 40 degrees vs say 95.
Very good read indeed on many aspects of accuracy, precision, and testing ideology/methodology. Thanks all.
Fred's right and I have no trouble seeing parallax in my VX2 scopes and my 6X's as well....this seems to be most apparent at the 300 yard line,but seems to be gone at 400-600 for some reason.
Trouble is if I hang a deer target at 300 yards and shoot at that monolithic chest area, I can't detect it.It's most apparent when I hang an orange dot against a black background...at 300 yards the "follow the bouncing ball" effect kicks in.
It's there with some VX3's but I don't see it as much.
Bob, Do you notice the orange bouncing ball being more prevalent on a bright sunny day? On those days for me the orange dots get fuzzy and seem to move. On overcast days I don't notice it as much.
battue I can't say I have but it could be me not paying attention...(?) I will watch for that.I should note I have seen it with white on black as well...do you think sunlight somehow affects this?
I also see it sometimes at 100 yards with some scopes...I dont know why but it is very apparent to me at the 300 yard line with some scopes...I have even sold a couple of VX II's becasue it was so disturbing.
I can say that the very sharp contrast in colors makes it very visible to me....and yet yesterday I shot with my Summit...there was no movement at all....every rifle it has been on so far has shot very well and I have wondered if that was a coincidence....I can see parallax in it at the lowest power, but not from 6-10X,where it tends to "live".
For me the bright orange dots loose their distinct edge on bright sunny days and seem to change shape slightly. Noticed when a cloud moves over the sun for a spell it will not be as bad, but will return once the sun is out again. My thoughts are the orange dot becomes a more reflective surface in bright sunlight.
65 it doesn't really bounce....sorta "rolls" around as I move my ol noggin around a little....gotta really center up in the view finder if you get my drift..
65BR The reason I shoot ( or used to shoot, I don't hunt as avidly now) multiple shot groups is because in my experience there have been problems that don't show up in one or two shots at 100 yards. One example is a 270 and a 7 magnum that i had at the same time. Both would shoot excellent groups at 100 yards, but at 300 yards the 270 would shoot 6 to 8 inch groups and the 7 magnum would shoot 3 inch groups. And I took advantage of the accuracy of that 7 magnum at least a couple of times that I can remember. Another example of the reason for multiple groups is a 25/06 residing in the gun safe behind me. For years it shot very well and took a lot of deer. And now, at the range, it will shoot the first 2 or 3 shots and sometimes the first 10 into good groups. But, it will spray about 30 % of it's rounds over a 6 or 8 inch pattern at 100 yards. Don't know yet what that problem is, but have determined it's not the scope. Those are the kind of problems I want to find at the range and not when I am trying to kill a buck that is 400 yards away and looking to change zip codes right away.
Fred that 25/06 barrel may be on its last legs...my last 270 barrel behaved like you describe and for about a year I was in denial.Smith and a bore scope confirmed my suspiscions.
I'm easy to please, I want the first shot to hit what I aim at.
Amen to that. I am a deer hunter and although nice groups are ok by me IF I haven,t killed the deer I am shooting at in one to three shots I may need some built in group dispersion ! MUCH more important to me to be able to have a non finicky rifle that I can pick up any day and put one or two shots right where I want them. Craig
First shot accuracy is important and second followup may be even more so, depending on circumstance.
However, sooner or later those who hunt a lot will be involved in a rodeo and a rifle that GTH after two shots is one I would rather not be carrying. Mainly because there is something wrong with it. And the rodeo may require good accuracy with a hot barrel, often combined with increasing distance or not so perfect presentation.
Then again, sometimes it is not the rifles fault at all....
First shot accuracy is important and second followup may be even more so, depending on circumstance.
However, sooner or later those who hunt a lot will be involved in a rodeo and a rifle that GTH after two shots is one I would rather not be carrying. Mainly because there is something wrong with it. And the rodeo may require good accuracy with a hot barrel, often combined with increasing distance or not so perfect presentation.
Then again, sometimes it is not the rifles fault at all....
Well, much ain't about groups. Point being, the [bleep] should hit what I'm aiming at. I really don't give a flying [bleep] about micrometers and group size. I've seen many a man that can cover his group with a penny not be able to hit a beer bottle at 400 yards.
Addition: Really don't have much desire to shoot BG at that distance, but it would be fun/interesting to have someone to give me a cliff notes version on how to be better at it than I am. The rifles for the most part are up to it. I would be the weak link when it comes to consistency.
I'm with you, although I've shot to 1100 yards, I have zero desire to draw blood at that distance. I much prefer the doe I shot 2 weeks ago at 8 yards.
I have nothing against the long range shooters of game, just not my cup of tea.
And I forgot the most important part of all of this, Happy New Year my friend.
How is the durability and tracking on those Elite Tactical scopes you guys are running say compared to Nightforce ?
Nightforce is the gold standard as far as I am concerned, however we have 5 or 6 of the HDMRs and they have been fantastic. In addition they are probably the most personally bought optic for a certain group of SpecOps snipers. 3.5-21x50mm, locking turrets, FFP, MIL/MIL, good glass, and the tracking and reliability is spot on.
