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Campfire Regular
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You realize of course, there's a reason for so many aftermarket M700 parts...
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Recently while shopping for a new 257 Roy I looked hard at the SII and though money wise it was obviously the much wiser buy (grins) I ended up getting a CDL SF instead. I just could not like the Vanguard no matter how much I tried. The stock in my opinion is hideous, its much heavier and clunkier in the hands than the Rem and IME the two 257 Weatherbys I have owned made by Remington have been tack drivers. Yes the new Remington triggers aren't the best but for a little over $100 you can have a great trigger. If they still made the SPS Stainless in 257 Roy I would have chose that one over the SII also but that's just me. The last 5 or so Remingtons that I have owned shot unbelievably well, I have had zero issues with newer Remingtons and I was an anti Rem guy for many years.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I've owned and used way more 700's than Vanguards but looking at them from a stand point of design and execution the Weatherby will always come out on top.
I've had many of them apart and have rebarreled maybe 40 or so 700's and 5 or 6 Vanguards.
The Vanguard has a one piece bolt...the 700,...three pieces all brazed together.
The Vanguard has an extractor very similar to the M16 extractor that is often retrofitted to a 700 bolt....the 700 extractor, while they do not often fail, is a piece of formed spring steel fit loosely into a groove. Later ones are not even riveted.
The Vanguard has a flat bottom receiver and an integral recoil lug.
The Vanguard has a firing pin assembly that's easily removed and reinstalled by hands only...a direct copy of the Sako L and A series rifles which the Vanguard copies a lot from. A long action Vanguard is almost a drop in fit into a Sako L61R/AIII stock.
The Vanguard is a LOT of rifle for the money.
Flame suit on and buttoned tightly......:-)
+1 the only cons vs a 700 is action weight and availability of aftermarket parts. It is so much better designed and executed that it is not even fuggin funny. The weight issue just got addressed with the recent announcement of the new Series II Back Country, which will come in at 6 3/4 lbs. with a fluted No. 2 contour 24 in. cerakoted barrel. Announced as pillar bedded, but will have a full length beddng block instead. I should have one in my hands for testing in a month.
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something,
make it a hole to remember.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Fisher - you beat me to it.
Also above on the 1-pc Machined bolt.
I had a 700 handle fall off, if I were down to 1 rifle, a Vanguard S2 would be at the top of the list for value. 700, not even close. Won't argue a good one will shoot, but when you have a handle fail, your shooting is over. Now a PT&G one piece bolt is an option, but back to what Fisher said....
Now if one wants to customize a 700, you can replace it's weak links.
I have owned dozens of 700s, and had about a 50/50 rate of good/bad for various reasons. Most were post 90 mfg. Earlier rifles had better QC IMO.
Many 700s get new stocks, triggers, barrels, even bolts/bolt mods. Don't see that w/Wby, but you can. Never seen an OEM 700 stock, that I would not replace in a heartbeat funds aside. Tupperware is what comes on most guns at this price level.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Weatherby makes a great budget rifle. I'd put it about 8-10 down the list of rifles I'd consider.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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vanguard 2 would get the nod from me, unless one were considering a 700 cdl/bdl.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You realize of course, there's a reason for so many aftermarket M700 parts... Yes and if Remington built a decent gun there wouldn't be. But Rems do make good donors.
NRA Lifetime Member
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Regular
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24
It must feel so good to be right all the time.....
Click "Ignore"..get rid of the whore..
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Remington used to make a good rifle...nowadays I'd probably lean towards the Vanguard unless you're willing to shop for a used 700
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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17Ackleybee - my point exactly. If I could gef Tatelaw to paint the stock for me, I'd prolly get another in. 257...
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have 2 Weatherby Vanguards (.243 & 30.06) that I really like. I put Timney triggers on both for the 3 postion safety. I don't like Wetherby's customer support though. The 30.06 leaves ejector marks with several different brands of factory ammo and reloads. It doesn't leave a mark every shot but does about 50% of the time. I called Weatherby about it and they refered me to one of their gunsmiths in Dallas. He told me he could fix it but I should send it to Weatherby since it was a new rifle. I sent it to Weatherby and got it back in a couple of weeks with 8 fired cases in the box. Five of the cases had ejector marks. These are not light marks either. The enclosed letter said they found everything to be normal. I told them that I'd take it to a local gunsmith for repair and send them the bill. I just put it in my safe for now.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Own two 700s and an older Vangard.
No contest, I'll take the Vangard every time.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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victoro - ask John Barsness about your concern. There may or may not be anything wrong w/your rifle. I seriously doubt if there were anything that was a safety issue, that WBY would have sent it back w/o doing any work to it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
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I have 2 Weatherby Vanguards (.243 & 30.06) that I really like. I put Timney triggers on both for the 3 postion safety. I don't like Wetherby's customer support though. The 30.06 leaves ejector marks with several different brands of factory ammo and reloads. It doesn't leave a mark every shot but does about 50% of the time. I called Weatherby about it and they refered me to one of their gunsmiths in Dallas. He told me he could fix it but I should send it to Weatherby since it was a new rifle. I sent it to Weatherby and got it back in a couple of weeks with 8 fired cases in the box. Five of the cases had ejector marks. These are not light marks either. The enclosed letter said they found everything to be normal. I told them that I'd take it to a local gunsmith for repair and send them the bill. I just put it in my safe for now. Welcome to the world of weatherby customer service. I'll never own another after getting the same results. However, mine was sent to one of their "authorized repair centers", not once buy 2 times to get an extraction problem fixed. After it came back the second time the smith had left his marks on it too  !! If I would have lived closer, I would have went and had words with the SOB!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026 |
Fisher - you beat me to it.
Also above on the 1-pc Machined bolt.
I had a 700 handle fall off, if I were down to 1 rifle, a Vanguard S2 would be at the top of the list for value. 700, not even close. Won't argue a good one will shoot, but when you have a handle fail, your shooting is over. Now a PT&G one piece bolt is an option, but back to what Fisher said....
Now if one wants to customize a 700, you can replace it's weak links.
I have owned dozens of 700s, and had about a 50/50 rate of good/bad for various reasons. Most were post 90 mfg. Earlier rifles had better QC IMO.
Many 700s get new stocks, triggers, barrels, even bolts/bolt mods. Don't see that w/Wby, but you can. Never seen an OEM 700 stock, that I would not replace in a heartbeat funds aside. Tupperware is what comes on most guns at this price level. So how much would you have into a rifle after replacing the bolt with a custom 1 piece (of course with a better extractor in it too), trigger, and stock?? It's a good thing they usually have pretty good barrels on them 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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65br,
I got ejector marks on light reloads even. I'm more concerned about ruining the Lapua brass I bought when I bought both Vanguards. The ejector marks are bad enough that the brass will be ruined after a few reloads or at least all the markings will be wiped off the head. The .243 brass never has a mark on the brass. It may not be a safety problem but there is something wrong and I'm disappointed Weatherby didn't at least try another bolt. The gunsmith in Dallas said the edges of the ejector hole were probably too sharp.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I have 2 Weatherby Vanguards (.243 & 30.06) that I really like. I put Timney triggers on both for the 3 postion safety. I don't like Wetherby's customer support though. The 30.06 leaves ejector marks with several different brands of factory ammo and reloads. It doesn't leave a mark every shot but does about 50% of the time. I called Weatherby about it and they refered me to one of their gunsmiths in Dallas. He told me he could fix it but I should send it to Weatherby since it was a new rifle. I sent it to Weatherby and got it back in a couple of weeks with 8 fired cases in the box. Five of the cases had ejector marks. These are not light marks either. The enclosed letter said they found everything to be normal. I told them that I'd take it to a local gunsmith for repair and send them the bill. I just put it in my safe for now. Welcome to the world of weatherby customer service. I'll never own another after getting the same results. However, mine was sent to one of their "authorized repair centers", not once buy 2 times to get an extraction problem fixed. After it came back the second time the smith had left his marks on it too !! If I would have lived closer, I would have went and had words with the SOB!! I had a six lug 270 act up once and sent it to their authorized service center in TN..it came back basically unfixed. I then sent it in to Weatherby and within a month got a new Mark V back. I purchased a brand new Remington 700 KS and taking it to the range I needed to pretty much bang on the bolt handle to remove a stuck case. I looked at the bolt saw nothing obvious and chambered and fired another round. Same problem. Took it to my "Remington" dealer and he told me he would not exchange the rifle, I told him I would not be dealing with him any longer sayonara MF. I sent it in to Remington and 3 months later I got it back fixed. I spent about 2x as much for the Remington as the Weatherby and the Rem was a custom shop rotflmfao.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Eenie-Meenie would work well in this decision making process.
I have both. Everything rembo said covers it.
Travis
Last edited by deflave; 01/14/13. Reason: I spelled rembo, "remba". GFY.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I personally prefer the feel of 700's but nothing wrong with a vanguard. Buy whichever feels the most natural/fits best.
Isaiah 6:8
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Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I own both along with Ruger and Winchester's and the Weatherby sub moa is my favorite of them all.
To each his own....I'm a Weatherby slut?....
Remington's suck as well as there owners(the company)
Jayco
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