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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794 |
There is nothing that sez you can't develope a load, sight in the rifle, and practice, practice, practice with the cheap stuff in similar size and then, right before hunting season, break out the high priced spread and make any sight adjustments needed, and go hunting.
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
There's also nothing that says a standard cup and core won't [bleep] schit up.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
I don't like tracking deer in the pucker brush. There is a philosophical difference here. Your answer is not addressing the original question.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,102 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,102 Likes: 4 |
I have been hunting and killing deer,elk,pronghorn, for over 40 years. I have yet to run many premium bullets thru my guns.I think maybe 35 yrs ago I might have shot a few partitions but that would be about all. I don't shoot the cheapest,but shoot the most acurate C&C bullet that is designed for the hunt I go on.Usually Sierras. I have probably shot more than most on this forum but not as many as some I have agrand total of two aniamls lost out of probably 100.Both my fault due to poor shot placement.
AS I have said many times.Using the so called premium bullets when not required is like paying a $500 hooker for a $5 oral sex job. You feel the same when done.
Talk to the rancher,farmer or blue collar worker that has maybe 4 boys hunting with him and money comes hard, but him and those boys want to hunt. Ask him if he uses premium bullets.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,906 Likes: 69
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,906 Likes: 69 |
AS I have said many times.Using the so called premium bullets when not required is like paying a $500 hooker for a $5 oral sex job. You feel the same when done.
Damn! NOW ya tell me!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315 |
I don't like tracking deer in the pucker brush. There is a philosophical difference here. Your answer is not addressing the original question. I wasn't answering the original question. I was answering yours regarding a quick clean kill.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702 |
This is what I know from experience, the less an animal suffers or runs, the better the meat, meat being the main reason I hunt, therefore I will use whatever kills the animal the fastest. I guess it's not as important when I need a doe, 'cuz I'm gonna brain'em anyway, but of great importance when I'm shooting at a buck. Besides, I'm not into torturing animals.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
Originally Posted By: Ringman Quote: How about a quick,humane kill?
Still I ask, upon what do you base the idea we should try for a quick, humane kill?
I don't like tracking deer in the pucker brush. I wasn't answering the original question. I was answering yours regarding a quick clean kill. I should have posted, you didn't answer MY original question.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,179 Likes: 19
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,179 Likes: 19 |
Well here I go. I get really worn out when someone post on here they don't want to buy "premium" bullets (whatever that means) because they are too expensive YET they come on here wanting to know what the best bullet is to kill a deer. I MIGHT understand if you were someone who had to shoot a 100 deer a day but give me a break, how many shots are you shooting, if you are shooting 100's of rounds, then buy the cheap blems and blaze away.
During hunting season I would bet most of us might go through 100 rounds, testing loads, practicing, etc. but when hunting how many shots do you take? Enough to matter money wise? Don't we owe it to the animal to kill it with the best there is?
OR you can look at it, the blems killem as dead as the North Forks or even a Ballistice Tip. Then why even ask which bullet to use.
I think most here are like me...I'm an All Day Sucker for the latest greatest stuff there is, hell I almost spent $65 on 50 North Fork bullets at the Safari Club Show but they didn't have my size.
So my point is, if you are worried anout the cost of your bullets, buy the cheapest bullet there is and shoot it... don't ask whaich one to buy.....Rant over, ya'll can pile on now... You proved your point about being an "all day sucker", or just a sucker with no comprehension as to what works...Like mentioned, hornady interlocks, sierra gamekings, winchester powerpoints and remington corelokts kill deer just as dead as the premiums do...By the way, if you can kill a deer with just .45 cents worth of bullet, you are doing good: Obviously you didn't take into consideration the load work-up, practice with that particular bullet and fine tuning, but hey if you can do all that with one shot my hat goes off to you...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,179 Likes: 19
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,179 Likes: 19 |
Up by me, Barnes bullets in 7mm and .30 Cal are about .80 cents a piece. Hornady GMXs are .68 cents a piece. A dead buck is worth $24.00 and a dead doe or fawn is worth $12.00, good meat on the table is priceless. I can afford to hunt with whatever bullet I chose, I still use .34 cent a piece Hornady Interlocks because they work well and put deer down fast, if I needed more I'd use it. If I were hunting elk or moose, I'd probably use Partitions or monos, I just don't need them for the deer by me, maybe whitetail are tougher in other parts of the USA, I know Wyoming whitetail and mule deer aren't, because I've taken a few out there with the same schitty Hornadys I've been using for 18 yrs now, and they all died fast with very little suffering. Same here brother...Why try to fix something that isn't broken???
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,185
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,185 |
I don't worry about the cost of hunting bullets. Then again, I'm not going to waste 100's of Partitions on paper and rocks...
Partitions print very close if not right on top of some Hornadys and Sierras. Easy to practice with "cheap" bullets and fine tune the "premium" one's quickly before season starts.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 Likes: 1 |
So am I supposed to be upset because I can afford $500 an hour hookers, I mean bullets?
I'm confused.
LOL
Saddlesore is right more than he knows - premium bullets like Barnes give you a tad bit more flexibility with a high vel. So you can shoot stuff very close without causing too much damage and still pull off the long shots. Does a 500 dollar hooker give you more flexibility, I'll leave that up to the reader.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,160
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,160 |
... The RIGHT question is - how many bullets do you fire setting up a load, and sighting in each year vs. killing the game with. More me that's about 30:1
So multiply the 45 cents a couple more times... That's $13.50. I spent more than that for the toilet paper, potato chips, and cookies I took to my deer camp last week. The cost of premium bullets are miniscule compared to what I spend on deer hunting every year, so to me it's a no brainer to use the premiums. I just don't shoot my big game rifles enough for an extra $50 a year to matter. If I had 4 boys hunting and was on a very limited income then I might feel differently. For me I've got a limited amount of time to hunt and want to make the most of it. I have had some not so desirable results out of standard factory bullets. Years ago I bought a new 7mm rem mag and wasn't set up to handload it, so I bought a couple of boxes of winchester 150 gr. power points, sighted it in and went hunting. The first three deer I shot with it all ran into the most ungodly thick cutovers you could imagine. I specifically remember being on my hands and knees in the rain and mud, pulling briars off of me, with a flashlight in my mouth blood trailing a deer through this cutover. That was not pleasant. Those 150 gr. power points were way too tough for out little southern whitetails and wouldn't expand, winchester must have figured that they were going to be shot at elk and built them pretty stout. After the first three ran several hundred yards each I threw the remaining factory ammo in the cupboard and bought some reloading dies. My trailing adventures ceased when I started shooting some decent bullets at them.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
Almost forty years ago I used some Hordnady 175 spitzers. I hit a deer in the shoulder about ten yards away fired from my 7mm-.300 Weatherby. None of the bullet entered the chest cavity. It turned so I shot it at the base of the tail dropping it. I then put one in the back of the neck.
From then on I used Nosler 175 and 160 Partitions until the Barnes X came out. I used them up to last year. Next season I will be using G.S.Customs for everything. Specifically I will use 85 grainers in my .257SLR. I am hopping for 3,800 feet per second. My most accurate groups and lowest SD's in my .375 and 7STW came while using them.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,700 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,700 Likes: 2 |
Almost forty years ago I used some Hordnady 175 spitzers. I hit a deer in the shoulder about ten yards away fired from my 7mm-.300 Weatherby. None of the bullet entered the chest cavity. It turned so I shot it at the base of the tail dropping it. I then put one in the back of the neck.
TFF. The muzzle blast alone at that distance should have killed him. Musta been an armor plated Ninja deer.
Swifty
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
Almost forty years ago I used some Hordnady 175 spitzers. I hit a deer in the shoulder about ten yards away fired from my 7mm-.300 Weatherby. None of the bullet entered the chest cavity. It turned so I shot it at the base of the tail dropping it. I then put one in the back of the neck.
TFF. The muzzle blast alone at that distance should have killed him. Musta been an armor plated Ninja deer. No, it was a cheap bullet, at high velocity, at very close range. This is a great recipe for what he described.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
If you've been shooting a load with a Sierra of the same weight(even a BT or something similar),practicing to distance with that,and know the rifle,you should be done with load development with a Partition in about 10 shots(if that).
That leaves 40 bullets to load for your hunt.
If it takes more than that to get a Partition load,there's something wromg with your rifle. Get it fixed or trip it.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,700 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,700 Likes: 2 |
Almost forty years ago I used some Hordnady 175 spitzers. I hit a deer in the shoulder about ten yards away fired from my 7mm-.300 Weatherby. None of the bullet entered the chest cavity. It turned so I shot it at the base of the tail dropping it. I then put one in the back of the neck.
TFF. The muzzle blast alone at that distance should have killed him. Musta been an armor plated Ninja deer. No, it was a cheap bullet, at high velocity, at very close range. This is a great recipe for what he described. No, what I am saying is you dont need a 7 or 300 super whizzum shooting an 80 cent bullet to do a 20 cent job. In fact I have never taken a deer with a rifle closer than 125 yrds, and when I did it wasnt shooting a 80 cent bullet. Buck taken at 65 yrds 3 years ago. Thought he was a 140, but busted tine. Look at the size of his neck, and the busted tine. Dressed out at 175 lbs. Shot him once with this, 41 mag 210 XTP going 1500 fps, which is fast. Purchased in 73 Total cost of the Round 22 cents. Bullet cost me 17 cents. I practice with a hard cast at the same speed that costs me 6 cents. Been doing this for 30 years, but I guess I need to buy a super whizzum rifle and premium bullets so I can come on here and complain about cheap bullet performance.
Swifty
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,895 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,895 Likes: 9 |
Is all about shot placement. Practice, practice, practice! there ya go again... there is always some guy who comes in and talks common sense, based on experience.... and messes up the discussion on what recently introduced spendy trendy bullet is 'best' for this season, and will be old news come next season... myself, I follow the wisdom and experiences of Wyohunter99 here... of course guys like me spend my time, instead of arguing the merits of which trendy bullet is best, complaining about manufacturers ending production on all of those Round Nose and SMP bullets I have loved all of these past years...
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,102 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,102 Likes: 4 |
Quote" No, what I am saying is you don't need a 7 or 300 super whizzum shooting an 80 cent bullet to do a 20 cent job."
Said nicer than what I did, but all these guys touting that you just have to use premium bullets reminds me of the guys who drive a new $50K diesel pickup, w/brush guard, winch, headache bar, Goodyear Duratrack tires,fancy chrome rims, light bars across the top. and and topper on it without so much as a trailer hitch and the pickup never goes off the pavement. However,they just have to have it or they can't get to work.
I was talking to a neighbor the other day about the complex, expensive software being used in the acconting of our treasury.She changed it all over to a simple Excel spread sheet.Her final comment hit the nail on the head.We were using a 10 passenger,super charge van to get up the hill when all we needed was a tricycle. Same goes for the pick of what bullet we need to use.
If I used a rifle with magnum type velocities or required deep penetration,I'd use the bullet that did thejob for that task. However,I have yet to run into a deer that required the magnum chamberins.For that matter,I'd say the same about elk.Use what you want though,but don't be skeptical of all the hunters out there who use what they have found to work.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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