|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
Be sure to brief me on how many times you've almost been taken out by hostile ground fire from a single weapon at over 500 meters.. I'm all ears.
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
A potato gun if the shot were well placed could take down a small jet. I would wager that it is damn near impossible to take down a commercial jet with an AR-15 and one mag. An AR-10 with one mag...I wouldn't bet on it. Yes the Afghan have taken down helicopters. I think you will find that they had more than one full-auto AK to do so. I pencil CAN kill you as can a spoon if properly placed. I don't see very many rational people claiming this to be FACT and reasonable justification to ban pencils and spoons. Stating that JJ is licking toad by making the "shoot down plane" statement is not disingenuous in the least bit. You have torn up a parked car with a .308. Yeah okay. 0 mph is pretty close to 100+ knots. Oy! Again with the commercial jets and military situations. Tearing up a car with a semi-auto .308, which I take it you have not done, is not notable because of the speed of the parked car. It's notable because of the damage the bullets do to little unimportant things like, oh, engine blocks, engine accessories, and need I mention any and all controls and linkages.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191 |
Fortunately I have been able to do wonderful and fun things with 5.56, 7.62, .50 cal, even 4.2" mortars and composition explosives. In order for that damage to be done you must FIRST and FOREMOST be able to hit your target and then hit it in the "right" spot. A pencil can kill you but given that FACT I don't see them being used very often as an offensive or defensive weapons.
Have you ever watched a battery of quad mounted 20MM cannon trying to shoot down an RC plane with a 6 foot wingspan at ranges less than 500 meters? It took more than a few tries. Hitting moving targets is not that easy. Hitting them where it counts is even harder.
So as I said, it could happen but to state it as fact is pushing it.
Last edited by mauser416; 01/20/13.
Vladimir I. Lenin claimed, "One of the basic conditions for victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communists) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
So as I said, it could happen but to state it as fact is pushing it.
Dream on it isn't that hard..
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191 |
Hmmm. I think back to WWI when aircraft were a bit flimsier and slower and the general move towards twin or multi-gun mounts using Lewis, Vickers, Spandau et.al. to more effectively engage aircraft and will stand by my statements.
Lacking any statistics evidence of the efficacy of a single, semi-automatic weapon to effectively engage and bring down an aircraft I will rely on my personal observations. You are of course at liberty to validate and or corroborate JJ's statement of fact to your heart's content.
DC-3/C-47 aren't really hardened aircraft and have taken quite a number of larger caliber hits and continued to fly.
Vladimir I. Lenin claimed, "One of the basic conditions for victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communists) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
I think if it was very doable at all, then all the full-auto terrorists of the world would have been gettin' it done on a regular basis by now.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
Hmmm. I think back to WWI when aircraft were a bit flimsier and slower and the general move towards twin or multi-gun mounts using Lewis, Vickers, Spandau et.al. to more effectively engage aircraft and will stand by my statements.
Lacking any statistics evidence of the efficacy of a single, semi-automatic weapon to effectively engage and bring down an aircraft I will rely on my personal observations. You are of course at liberty to validate and or corroborate JJ's statement of fact to your heart's content.
DC-3/C-47 aren't really hardened aircraft and have taken quite a number of larger caliber hits and continued to fly. I certainly don't disagree and I'm not siding with JJ's pile on statement after the fact just stating some actual experience that it's not just blind luck but a real possibility to shoot down an airliner..God forbid it ever happens.
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6 |
Is it just my imagination, or is Jesse Jackson's eyes gettin' farther apart?
If it keeps up, his eyes gonna be all bugged out on the side of his head and he's gonna look like one o'them Black Molly fish that you can buy down to the dime store fer 79 cents. Yeah, that [bleep] has a monstrous forehead, would be to easy really. Gunner
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3 |
We'd be celebrating James Earl Ray day tomorrow, had he been slick enough to break another shot and get Jessie after he shot MLK.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 861
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 861 |
Is it just my imagination, or is Jesse Jackson's eyes gettin' farther apart?
If it keeps up, his eyes gonna be all bugged out on the side of his head and he's gonna look like one o'them Black Molly fish that you can buy down to the dime store fer 79 cents. Yeah, that [bleep] has a monstrous forehead, would be to easy really. Gunner That's just evidence of "POLITICAL EVOLUTION".You see, because of his years in POLITICS,he's had to evolve so's he can see who's slippin' up behind him.Before you know it,he'll have eyes in the back of his head.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191 |
FlyBoyFlem,
I wouldn't dismiss possibility either. My initial response was directed to the comment that folks were being disingenuous when arguing against JJ's statement about shooting down planes. JJ did not couch his statement that it was within the realm of possibility but rather spoke of it as an everyday fact and capability. These guns can bring down planes. These pencils can kill someone. Both statements are in the realm of possibility. Most folks recognize the latter statement about pencils as not being very probable. Unfortunately, when high visibility people open their mouths about guns as in the former case too many folks do not know what is possible versus what is probable.
JJ was disingenuous in his statement.
Vladimir I. Lenin claimed, "One of the basic conditions for victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communists) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
I appreciate that you are debating this politely, by the way. A rarity around here. Well done.
I've had two different occasions to hang out near airports in my life. In both cases pre-911 so maybe things are different now. Both times, the planes came over low and slow.... At any rate, considering that the only elements at play are lead and drop..... I'm pretty certain I could put multiple hits on the engine of a plane taking off or landing. If it was with say my DPMS LR308 I'm pretty sure those hits would be devastating.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6 |
We'd be celebrating James Earl Ray day tomorrow, had he been slick enough to break another shot and get Jessie after he shot MLK. Gunner
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
When i worked in the Hospital and they offered me Nagger Day off i refused and worked and told them to give it to someone else who wanted off on that day.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,581
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,581 |
Could you do the same with a Remington 742 (a non "assualt rifle")???? Could you put a 200gr. Barnes into an engine with a 300 RUM bolt action???? Jackson was trying to vilify one class of firearm, when in reality, nearly ANY firearm could be used for the same purpose. Imagine what would happen if someone stole a Peterbuilt with a trailer loaded with flammables and put it into a stadium full of people. I could sit here and come up with stupid "what if" scenarios all day. That doesn't mean that there should be laws regulating 18 wheelers any more than there need to be laws regulating certain firearms. Jackson was trying to create a boogey man, while what he said was true to some extent, it was not solely applicable to those firearms that idiots call assualt weapons. He was being... disingenuous.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,981
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,981 |
I appreciate that you are debating this politely, by the way. A rarity around here. Well done.
I've had two different occasions to hang out near airports in my life. In both cases pre-911 so maybe things are different now. Both times, the planes came over low and slow.... At any rate, considering that the only elements at play are lead and drop..... I'm pretty certain I could put multiple hits on the engine of a plane taking off or landing. If it was with say my DPMS LR308 I'm pretty sure those hits would be devastating. And you can take a [bleep] if you eat regular...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 191 |
Jeff O,
That is possible. Many people are surprised the first time they try.
Again, the gist is not whether it is possible by the vilification of an inanimate object by a political opportunist. With that type of logic we should also be concerned about pencils, cars, swimming pools, etc. JJ despises racism and bigotry yet has been publicly caught doing both. Remember the Hymie-town remark? JJ also portends to carry the mantle of MLK. Regardless of what you think of MLK the notion of judging a man by his character isn't bad nor is MLK's realization and practice of arming himself to protect his family even when govt and PD thought otherwise.
Vladimir I. Lenin claimed, "One of the basic conditions for victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communists) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
When i was growing up in the early sixty's , they used to announce on the Radio, please don't shoot at the airplanes they aren't looking for Stills
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
I agree completely that Jackson was talking out his ass, especially in regards to AR15's.
My one, simple point of debate here is (was) that some "assault rifles" (sic) could indeed be effective against civilian aircraft. Since we have a combat pilot concurring I think I'll just bow out now. Thanks for the words, gents.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
This plays well with the low information voter.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
541 members (160user, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 117LBS, 1234, 1beaver_shooter, 56 invisible),
2,814
guests, and
1,189
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,796
Posts18,536,459
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|