Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Who's Christian? Who isn't?

??? So what's his favorite color..?

Once you repent doesn't mean you are no longer a sinner. Once a sinner always a sinner even if you are a repented sinner. Sinners still get into Heaven according to the New Testament once they accepted Jesus.

Tithing is not a requirement to get into Heaven.

The God described in the Bible is petty and bipolar. I wouldn't doubt there is a higher being, but the Bible does a piss poor job in verifying that. There is as much missing in the Bible as there is bad stuff within.

Who said I need this line of thinking to relieve myself of moral values. It is possible to have morals and values without the need to rely on a Bible or religion. It would be very non Christian like of you to think other wise.

I am enjoying my life as it stands and don't expect anything beyond what I do on this earth. Which could be viewed as a more moral and honest existence. If I believe this is it, the big show so to speak. Then I better not murder, steal, etc...because I am being judged now and must live with the consequences.

But if I murder, steal, etc... in this life and then find Christ in prison which turns out to be false. Which scenario is now the more moral?

That's because I don't follow religion... I believe Jesus was a real person and who he said he was. I also believe he is all things to all people...

I believe he said what he wanted to when he was here... I can't describe who he is in his totality and neither can Paul or Paul by default through Luke. I could take Jesus literally but he never wrote anything down... obviously on purpose.

I don't believe he forgot some stuff and had to make addendum later through men.

I appreciate other's perpecive and inspiration... but one person or groups gospel isn't the end all to God.

Kent

That takes us to the "once saved always saved" debate. I'll get back to ya on this, as it's a good one, but I really gotta run.

You're right about tithing as it pertains to entrance to heaven!

Good discussion, Longbob!

I'll fill ya in in about 2 hours, after my class. Promise!

I am enjoying it too, Hug. Just a little clarity so I don't come across as some bitter Christian hater or something. I work with some of the finest people on the planet and they are all Christians. I will risk a guess that the Christians that have responded in this thread would be in that same category, IMO.

There have been several times that one of them has said "I am surprised you are not a Christian" based on my moral belief system. I have always taken that as a compliment based on the intent of the speaker. The counter of that comment that I could say is "I am surprised you are." But that would not be the appropriate comment nor how I feel.

Being moral does not make you a Christian nor does being a Christian make you moral.

I'm only going to address the last paragraph because I've been perplexed by that as well. I honestly never encountered that behavior anywhere except this forum.

I wouldn't put up with a muslim trying to use the koran to "prove" the koran, and a christian who tries the same tactic has just lost his audience as far as I'm concerned.

The bible can't be literally true. The fact that there are so many translations compounds the problem for a man trying to "ground his faith" on the book.So...that never worked for me.

Fairly late in life, I realized that I had never been allowed to NOT believe in God [or Jesus]. My well meaning old aunt that raised me had drug me to a little "Holiness" church until I was big enough to escape.

I run across folks who have never "dared to not believe". I wonder how strong their faith is gonna be when the rubber [as it always must, at some point] hits the road. Mine sure as hell failed me.

I had to surrender to the "Creator of the Universe",who ever he was, leaving behind my "childhood Jesus."

Then, the REAL, LIVING, Jesus introduced Himself to me as both the "Creator of the Universe", and the "Jesus of the Gospels." He did it in a way that was personal to me and left no room for doubt.

I don't know that I've met the Jesus of Paul's letters yet. I may be too dumb for that.

I couldn't help recalling from the Bible how John the Baptist, who probably knew Jesus as a third cousin growing up, and Peter, who had been His companion for a couple or three years and "knew" Him well, BOTH were "introduced" to a Jesus different from the one they already knew.

Jesus told Peter that "Flesh and blood had not revealed it to him, but the Father had."

As far as I'm concerned, this ability of the Father to reveal Jesus to humans is actually what Jesus founded His "church" on.

Not Peter [as the Romans teach]

Not a statement of faith [as the Protestants teach]

I've found nothing in Scripture to contradict my view, but this forum is certainly the place I'd go if I wanted someone to play "devil's advocate".

Of course, my "view" leaves no place for priests or preachers, and places no premium on intelligence or reading comprehension.

Hell........ even a child can understand it !

Nice post Curdog.

From LongBob:

"The God described in the Bible is petty and bipolar. I wouldn't doubt there is a higher being, but the Bible does a piss poor job in verifying that. There is as much missing in the Bible as there is bad stuff within.

Who said I need this line of thinking to relieve myself of moral values. It is possible to have morals and values without the need to rely on a Bible or religion."


The problem with this is that one is only "as good as he wants to be." This is a problem common to most, in fact I have it as an major issue. ONLY AS GOOD AS... I.... WANT TO BE. This way I only have to satisfy myself and not some external deity. If one's moral standard comes from within oneself, you don't know what you'll end up with. I suspect that most Muslim suicide bombers do truly believe and believe that their own "internal moral code" justifies their act.

I suspect that ALL of us struggle with this in some way.

All the best,

tf

Being I answered the question that I do believe the God of the Bible exists and the Bible is His inspired word I have taken the time to do a bit of study.

The Old Testament was written in ancient Hebrew, which did not use vowels in the written form. It would be somewhat like reading and entire book written in abbreviations. The reader would get the correct meaning if they knew the subject, culture, and nomenclature well, but others would have a hard time figuring it out.

Add to that the fact that ancient Hebrew didn't have a distinction between causative and permissive verbs, and thus, a statement that "God caused some disaster" and the statement that "God permitted some disaster" would be written the same in ancient Hebrew. Much of the OT has been translated assuming the causative, but with the revelation of the NT, I believe it should have been translated assuming the permissive.

In human terms you might think badly of some parent who caused their child to fail, but cite tough love if you find that they permitted their child to fail.

What you think you know about God's character from the Old Testament is based on ignorance and much of it is not even your own.



Values you select or make up yourself may be some "code" you live by, but they are not moral values. If moral values were up to the individual then everyone is living a perfectly moral life. Moral values are imposed by one greater than yourself, which is God. Dismissing the Bible as a hoax frees you from judging yourself by God's values.



You can believe what you want and you may be right or you may be wrong just I may be right or wrong. Pascal considered this. If I'm wrong and there is no God, then I've denied myself the freedom to do as I want in this life, but death is nothing more than peaceful oblivion. If you are wrong, then you are free to do as you want in this life, but death is not oblivion and you will stand judgment before the one you have call bipolar and without the benefit of what Jesus did for believers.

I am also being judged now by human law as all people are. The difference between human law and God's law is that with human law there is no penalty if you're not caught, which leads many to break human laws and end up in prison. For those who find Christ there it's the best thing that ever happened to them and they are far more likely to stay out of prison in the future. Is that not better than living a life of crime regardless of the truth about God?

Watchman Nee told of a Chinese tad who went to a pagan shrine with his mother. Looking at the carved, weathered, cracked wooden idol, he theorized "That thing's not a god!"

He stepped outside, looked up at the sky, and said something to the efffect that "If there's a god, he's up there somewhere. That's the god whom I want to know."

When Christian missionaries came along years later and told him about God in the Bible, he exclaimed "That's the god I know!"

He also told of another man on a small island where paper was almost as rare as Mars rovers. When the went brought a scrap of paper along the ground, he picked-up a fragment of a page from the New Testament and read part of the passage about the gifts of the Spirit. Healing caught his attention. "That's what I'd rather do. How � ?"

When Christian missionaries came along years later, he was quietly going around ministering healing � by the Holy Spirit, in the Name of Jesus.

By the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit � not by reading the Bible or by listening to preachers � both men had come to know God.

I'm obliged.

You omitted and important paragraph from my quote which addresses your part about me being "ONLY AS GOOD AS... I.... WANT TO BE."

Here is the paragraph:

I am enjoying my life as it stands and don't expect anything beyond what I do on this earth. Which could be viewed as a more moral and honest existence. If I believe this is it, the big show so to speak. Then I better not murder, steal, etc...because I am being judged now and must live with the consequences.

Would it be fair to say that you answer to your own conscience?


I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just wondering if there is more to your philosophy of life than that?

This one paragraph of yours says volumes at how you view me as a non Christian. It states that I cannot be moral unless I am a Christian. Keep thinking that.

"Values you select or make up yourself may be some "code" you live by, but they are not moral values. If moral values were up to the individual then everyone is living a perfectly moral life. Moral values are imposed by one greater than yourself, which is God. Dismissing the Bible as a hoax frees you from judging yourself by God's values. "

Yes, it would be fair to say that I answer to my own conscience, but not exclusively. I also answer to the ones around me in some form or fashion. And to a greater degree than a repentant murderer or thief, IMO.

People like that really tick me off. My Bible tells me about a loving God.

One guy like your friend does way more harm by their closed minded ass hole opinions than a thousand can do teaching a loving God.

Read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and you will fing the God I serve.

I'm an ordained Christian Pastor who wants more and more to head in the direction of missions. In 2003 I turned down a chance for missions in Zambia. Wasn't ready. Oh to have that chance back again. The Bible says to wait on the Lord and that is what I'll do.

Lets put it this way i don't go to Church, i don't live the Church Life Style, i cuss and swear, I have Carnival Knowledge about women on a daily basis and could kill anything that walks and not lose a min sleep over it. My question is, does this qualify me as a Christian or just a good ole country redneck boy?