Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Nightforce - are they worth it

So, you are talking about special forces units ? They have alwyas used wide variety of scopes.
My understanding that they all have problems from time to time. We've had a couple of posters point out that if your Nightforce develops any problems, it's a six month wait to get anything fixed. Nightforce has no big contracts with the military. Probably beccause they can't deal with problem scopes in a timely manner.
Again, which Leupolds ? The fixed magnification 10X, Mk.4 has been the Army's day scope since the 80's. It was developed to meet the Army's standards which no one could do at the time. That's the same story that led to the development of the new Mk.8's. Nobody else could make one that worked.
Until I see some carefully done testing that proves otherwise, I'm going to believe that Leupold builds as good a scope as anyone could want. Depends on which one you choose for what job. E

Billy,

Thanks for the info.

I've got a Mark 4 10x on my 6.5-06. The adjustments have always been dead-nuts and very reliable. In fact the first time I cranked it out to 600+ yards, after sighting-in at 100, the 140 VLD's landed right where they should according to the ballistic program. Of course I'd tested the adjustments for accuracy by shooting and adjusting at 100, but it was nice to see everything work out so easily way out there.

Of course, I haven't taken any big game with the rifle beyond 163 yards, but have shot some varmints at longer distances. Impressed the hell out of a few friends while we were shooting prairie dogs a couple years ago. We'd either killed or spooked all the dogs inside 400 yards with normal PD rifles, so I got out the 6.5-06, lasered a dog at 470, cranked the elevation turret, and killed the dog with the very first shot.(Of course, I didn't have enough sense to put the rifle away after that--but did get a few more out to around 600.)

I've probably got about 2000 rounds through a Barret and you are right that it is hard to test scope tracking when you rifle shoots about 3 MOA.
I never had any issues with an M3a either. A M3LR cost my partner and I a couple of places at the FT Benning Sniper match when it took a dump.
Buddy of mine did the 5th Grp Level 2 course when he was in the 101st.
Regular Army snipers shoot a lot more then they used to at least here on Carson.

Eremicus
The Army does not use Leupold exclusively. Sniper rifles in our armsroom have S&B, Nightforce and Leupold scopes. I have been active duty for quite a while now and am fairly familiar with all of them (Not much time on a 2010 or with the S&B).

RDFinn I agree with Formidilosus that the Leupolds are the most problematic of our scopes. The MK4 LR/T 3.5-10 M2 that come on the M110 are the worst.

If you are talking about the old M3A then us older guys liked it, most of the younger guys have never used one. The MK4 M3LR took over for it early 2000 timeframe.

That's sounds pretty strange to me, RD. I had the impression Formidilous ran a shooting school where he taught long range shooting skills and was a former military sniper.
E

Most of my observations are from 8 years as a US military duty slotted sniper, owner and chief instructor of a firearms training company, 3-Gun and precision rifle tactical competitor, and a fanatical hunter.

E, stop. Please. You know nothing of military sniping or sniper equipment.

These are the Leupolds issued in the military.

Ultra M3A (or MK4) 10x40
MK4 LR M3 3.5-10x40
MK4 4.5-14x50 M1
TS-30 A2 3�9�36
MK8 1.1-8x24 CQBSS
MK4 34mm 6.5-20x50

There are/were a few others in limited numbers.


The only ones that don't have consistent problems are the fixed 10x, the MK8 CQBSS, and the new 34mm 6.5-20x50.


The rest fail at an unacceptable rate for military sniper use.






Your statement about Nightforce's military contracts and repair backlog is false. They have, and have had, several contracts within USSOCOM, NAVSPECWAR, and USASOC. They currently have one worth 25.8 million dollars.

They do have a huge backlog across the board with their optics because they are selling every single scope they can make. It has nothing to do with repairs.





I have spent 7 years as a military duty slotted sniper. I have been issued, used, and shot every scope mentioned in this thread. I have seen the variable Leupolds fail at around 25-30% rate. That is- it is not uncommon to have 2 or 3 variable power Leupolds out of 10 develop issues when used hard. I have seen both S&B and Premier scopes have issues (granted there have been very few). I have never seen a NF fail (including the one with the bullet through it). I'm sure they break like all things made, but I would bet they have the lowest failure rate of any US issued sniper scope.

He believes only what he wants, this has been going on for years. Face it he's an older gentleman who has all the answers and he comes to this forum to try and influence others that he knows best. That is fact!

Lets not forget that leupold was the last major player in the rifle scope market to adopt usuing Mulit coated glass in there rifle scopes.You dont have to go back that far to find used loopies that have non multi coated lens.There current quality problems are compounded by a company attitude that somehow allows them run 10 to 15 years behind there competition in technology.
ie...they just started a tacticle rifle scope division in a market that they should have owned 20 years ago.
The living on a name thing,is getting kinda old.

dave

dodgefan both of mine have M3 dials and are Mk IV 10 x40 as marked neither has an A or LR after the M3 on the dials or scope that I can see. The one on my 308 has a mil dot reticle and the turret says 308 M marked out to 1000 yds. Leupold CS told me it was calibrated for 168 bthp's with a bc of .476 at 2650 fps at sea level. the one on the 30-338 turret says 300 win mag M3 marked out to 1200 meters with a duplex crosshair and is supposed to calibrated with 190 gr bthp with a .496 bc at 2900fps at sea level. from what little 500 to 1000 yd shooting I do they are close but I don't shoot at sea level and the velocity of my loads are different than idealized.I only have about $450 each in them but still think I did ok for the money. Any add'n info you have on them is appreciated if you will share it. Magnum Man

I would also say that many people don't have an accurate enough gun to really know how well their hunting rifle scope tracks.

Again, which Leupolds ? The fixed magnification 10X, Mk.4 has been the Army's day scope since the 80's. It was developed to meet the Army's standards which no one could do at the time.