Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Our Economy "We all know it is going to end badly"

Here's a good read on why things are "what they appear" to be.

"If a rising stock market makes people feel better ( and it does, study after study shows it) AND if a rising market makes powerful people lots of money at the same time... doesn't it make sense that "job one" would be to make the market either go up, or at least... hold steady? You bet it does. That is the WHOLE POINT of this operation."

http://www.theinternationalforecast...kly/We_all_know_it_is_going_to_end_badly

Good article.

Yes, good read.

In the first paragraph, the author mentions S. Druckenmiller who did a very interesting interview recently on Bloomberg. IMO, it is worth watching for anyone with money in the market.

Storm Coming

your stocks appear to be worth more dollars, because the USD is worth Less!
It will soon be like Mexico when you needed a wheelbarrow of pesos to get loaf of bread!

Exactly. Fed smoke and mirrors, is all it is. Trickery. Eventually, however, it will hit the wall, and the dollar will collapse. The only true path to recovery is to allow the free market to function, which it currently cannot due to overburden in the areas of regulation and taxation, not to mention uncertainty in both regards.

in terms of main stream economic theory, obama is doing all he can do. he's pouring money into the economy to keep things "propped" up. until a new improved theory comes along i suspect the status quo will continue to prevail.

As you likely well know, Keynesian (i.e., neo-Marxist) economics became "mainstream" because of the advantages it affords both politicians and the banking community, who then determine which university economics programs receive funds and which do not. Free market economics, on the contrary, don't particularly benefit either politicians or the banking community, for reasons that shouldn't require elaboration.

As soon as we started talking about electing obama as president things started falling apart. Before that things were being held together. Remember don't change anything just go on about your business as normal and they don't win. Now look at all the changes that has been made and they are wining.

He's doing all he can do alright.....and it's doing exactly what he wants it to do, TANK!

probably fundamental structural change is the only thing that will save us? ...related to taxes, overseas competition, the national deficit, and the national debt.

but, who can endure fundamental structural change, and what might it look like??

further add-ons, further down the list include social security, medicare, illegal aliens, and high energy prices.

pretty well written article


sums up things fairly nicely to my views and analysis


"backed by the full faith and credit of the US gov't"


doesn't help me sleep well


if it does for you, well then pleasant dreams

"It is NOT an accident when the biggest manufacturing powerhouse in the world falls apart. It is NOT an accident when the world�s largest creditor nation is now the world�s biggest debtor. Plans were laid; decisions made, politicians appointed, laws/rules/regulations/treaties etc were passed. All in the name of "advancement" of course.

What they changed us into is something called a consumption society. Instead of becoming richer by exporting tremendous goods around the globe and taking in the profits, now we cut each others lawns, as we are a "service" society.

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I was ok with the article until the author introduced socialism as the driver for it.

I can't make the connection.

Big business has an obligation to the stockholders, and beginning in the late 70's and blowing up in the early 90's, the quickest way to boost shareholder value was to cut costs meaning moving production to 3rd world [bleep] and taking the manufacturing out of this country.

At the same time, productivity for America skyrocketed because what manufacturing did stay was heavily automated and computer aided - meaning fewer workers were needed. Then in the 90's, the computer revolution jolted the service economy with decent paying jobs along with an aging population that needed healthcare workers. These jobs helped but only for those that were motivated to move beyond a high school education. For the masses that our education system is geared toward cranking out, the manufacturing jobs of the 60's were gone and they had to look toward the service sector for jobs that made ends meet.

So , unless someone wants to correct me, unfettered capitalism is what drove our manufacturing down.

And who are stockholders? well its not the guy making $35K a year on the assembly at the local factory - its the wealthiest percentage of Americans who use stock income as a hedge against taxes.

This is why you have the greatest disparity in our nations history between the wealthiest Americans and the ever shrinking middle class/poor. Its why blue chip companies are booming while American unemployment stays high.

and its exactly why liberal policies and democrats are able to continue to have a foothold in this country - because globalism eliminates opportunities for the working masses here in the United States as we continue to work toward a leveling in the standard of living among all the inhabitants.

We see those same issues in India and China now - strong demand for cheap labor has stretched those countries where their average wage has gone up -certainly not anywhere near the standards we have in this country, but to the point that companies are looking to move manufacturing back to the US (with completely automated factories and robots replacing the Asian throwaway workers) or moving them to even worse 3rd world countries.

Clearly socialism isn't the answer, but in our country today, its the only solution being presented. Socialism say take from the wealthiest who are benefiting from this economy and give to those are are suffering because of it, and the voting masses play this out in every election.

Recent events have me wishing I was in the market right now, but I still have a gut feeling there's a train coming through the tunnel. Frustrating.

Kfwa what about the corruptbunions driving up labor costs to unreasonable levels?

Conveniently left that out of your post

Kfwa also left out punitive corporate tax rates!
Blaming capitalism is a cornerstone of the socialist!

Crash aint too far off.

It was hardly unfettered. It was, in fact, the extent to which it was fettered (regulations leading to moral hazard, malinvestment, captured regulators, crony capitalism, inhibition to new entry into sectors of business, etc.) that caused its downfall.

perhaps unfettered isn't the right word - but a result of socialism? I don't think so.

As for Unions, union decline started well before the growth of outsourcing. While wages - driven up by unions may have been the cause, at what price point would a manufacturer whose obligation to maximize shareholder profit to keep paying Americans a lower wage compared to $3 a day in a 3rd world country.

I don't think I'm blaming capitalism, I'm just stating what happened and the idea that the current push for socialism is what is driving the market seems off to me.

Also the time that businesses were hiring COO's and CEO's with MBA's instead of hiring from within (worker on the ffloor to mid management on up), or passing the business from father to son through inheritance. There is no loyalty to the business operation, or to the workers, when it is just one more job, and there is another waiting for the COO/CEO. At that point, the loyalty is to the board of dirrectors and the stock holders. When the bubble pops, they shuffle off any company owned components that they can, shut the company down, give themselves bonuses and network for the next job.

There is no thought to the future generation, or running the company into perpetuity. Selling out became the new American dream, and worse, the new business model. Work for a living? Hell no, where's the lump sum...

Yep...been sitting this one out myself. Had a little in-and-out for a bit a couple years ago, but mostly out for all this recent hoopla.

Cant win em all, and I suspect things will "correct". We're near 20% real unemployment in some areas- my crystal ball tells me thats not a good thing.