Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Do you carry with a round in the chamber?

More BS conjecture on your part if you can't or don't get I can't help

Just prove me wrong instead of just saying BS.......

You show charts about energy/momentum/penetration yada yada....Just show me why your method is faster in time instead of were just supposed to believe it....

I don't.....It doesn't' take anymore significant time to run the slide versus/cocking or thumbing the safety.

It is simple..Just prove me wrong...Not my word against yours..Prove it is faster your way....

I can't believe you said what you said about having your head beat in on concrete..Have you ever had that happen?

You can't is the fact because it's not....

Jayco

This make sense to you? IF the guy is bashing your head in then he has the only weapon that he needs to bring great bodily harm or death the person being bashed in needs a weapon to stop the attack

You come up with silly zzz BS that doesn't deserve a reply I am done

Really...

If the guy has a gun and wants to kill you,your dead before the fist fight starts...

You get into a fist fight and the guy has no weapon and you want to kill him because he is beating the snot out of you?

Just show me and prove your method is faster to shoot the guy beating the snot out of you,without a weapon....

Scenario-You and I wrestle and we both jump up and run to the table where we both have loaded weapons....Your's is cocked and locked with the hammer down/safety on and mine is chamber free off safety..We grab them at the same time.....I have to run the slide/you have to take it off safety.

Who's shot is first and why?

Jayco

How can the weapon be cocked and locked with the hammer down? If all I have to do is swipe off the safety you will lose. Your technique basically requires 2 hands, but what if one of your arms/hands has been injured? I don't think you can rack the slide using one hand faster than I can take the safety off with one hand!

People spend lots of time discussing points like this and practicing at the range. What they really need to think hard about is when to brandish a weapon, and when to use it.

I am not sure that a citizen should ever brandish a firearm, if you need pull it you better need to use it

I just cringe when I hear "Israeli Method" because it's nearly always used by some tool who comes across as having an Israeli/Jewish Superiority Complex by Proxy, and they act as if the manual of arms was written on a stone tablet by the finger of God Himself for all the generations to follow, without understanding the Israelis were just trying to make do with what they had to work with at the time.

BTW, I do have active State of Alaska Police Firearms Instructor certs. Modern technique is a term used in the instructors' manual.

I close my eyes, mash the trigger and hope for the best. I call it the Bluedreaux Technique.

I do and even when hunting...

That's because you live in the south. Alot of thick brush and quick shots.

Out west we have more open country. We have more time, and take longer shots.

We also have more snow and ice to contend with when hunting, which increases the risks of falling with a rifle and ADD's. As a consequence, we have a greater tendency to hunt with our chambers empty.

Zimmerman would have been dead or seriously brain damaged today if he carried his auto pistol with an empty chamber. No way in hell he'd have been able to save his life by racking the slide with Martin on top of him since his other hand was busy fighting off the attacker.

easy to spot the queens on this thread.........

I have carried cold as a compromise dictated by conditions but never have considered it optimum. Conditions that lead me to do it were carrying a striker fired weapon (glock) without a holster. Before I get chastised about carrying a glock without a holster you can save your breath, sometimes you do what you have to do and I would not recommend it to anyone.

Other than some very specific exceptions I carry hot. I have done my part to train to rack weapons or clear malfunctions one handed but they are slower than a standard manual of arms. IMHE needing a sidearm usually involves bad breath distances and I would rather have my other hand available to create distance, assist with retention or anything other than racking a slide.

I've also found it extremely useful to shove the pistol forward as you fire to counteract recoil and give the bullet more velocity, every little bit counts in MESCQC (mega extreme super close quarter combat).

But GOOD shooters are even harder to find.............

This is about the umpteenth time this question has been asked here & the responses, pro & con, & all the reasons for or against, remain the same.

MM

sandcritter �

Condition 3 carry has the obvious downside that the firearm must be made ready before it can be used. For someone who finds themselves in a high risk environment this can have serious ramifications. That said, even a drawn weapon in Condition 0 or a Condition 1 carry method provide no guarantee as to the outcome of an event. Simply put, the method of carry is generally far less important than whether one is armed or not.

The other side of the coin is that no one has ever been shot by a gun with an empty chamber. Given that many unintentional discharges and subsequent injuries occur while loading or unloading the chamber or while drawing or holstering a gun with a loaded chamber, the benefit of Condition 3 is also obvious. Whether or not that benefit outweighs the disadvantage is a personal decision and I contend that there is no one right answer that applies equally to everyone.

For myself, I�ve chosen Condition 3 because I live in a low risk environment. People raise arguments about Rottweiler attacks, attacks by packs of wild dogs, car jackings, etc. Let me just say that when walking the neighborhood I�m more likely to beat a vicious dog with my walking stick than to shoot it and in 25 years I�ve yet to see or hear about any pack of wild dogs in the neighborhood. To my knowledge there has never been a car jacking in the area and, although I�m sure there have been various types of incidents at the local bar, it�s 3 miles from the house and I don�t go there. Speaking only for myself and particular situation, the advantages of a loaded chamber simply don�t outweigh the disadvantage of the increased potential for unintentional discharge. In the hundreds of times I�ve carried, never once have I felt the need to draw my weapon, let alone load the chamber. That is hundreds of times the potential for an accident has been avoided entirely, plus an equal number for each time the chamber had to be unloaded later. The fact is that in my case an unintentional discharge is far more likely than a shot fired in anger.

It may be that I am more sensitive to this than others because I carried a bullet fragment from a ricochet in my leg for 20+ years. Another time I bumped a nail gun while working in cramped quarters and gripped it more tightly to avoid dropping it - and thus buried a 2-1/2� nail in the other leg. At the range I�ve managed to drop the hammer on a live round in one of my lever action rifles when my thumb slipped, killing some dirt to the side of the target. Older Brother, who carries Condition 1 daily and has for years, put a hole in the floor of a car due to a thumb slip on a 1911. Human error aside, I�ve seen two incidents of unintentional discharges due to mechanical failures when the safety was released on firearms that had never been known to have problems before. Condition 3 eliminates the potential for any such incidents.

As with all things in life, the method and manner of carry is a personal choice that involves trade-offs. To suggest there is only one �right� way is, to my way of thinking, ignoring reality.

When the military issued me a M-15 S&W I loaded it and holstered it. When I was issued a Beretta M-9 I was handed a loaded 15 round mag. I inserted the mag, chambered a round, decocked it, and holstered it with the safety off. I do it the same for way now except with my revolvers and self loaders. Each to their own.

There is more common ground amongst the debaters than they might think. There are two separate questions being addressed: (1) How many carry with a chambered round? and (2) What is the "best" way to carry?

I think both sides agree that the fastest way to get your pistol into action it to carry with a loaded chamber. That said, some folks have stated why they don't think that it's the best way for them to carry. I think these folks realize that they are increasing their chances of their gun not saving them, but they do so consciously, preferring the decreased risk of an AD (and I'm talking mathematical probabilities here, not addressing anyone's skill and carrying/handling a gun. An empty chamber can't result in an AD.) Proponents of carrying RIC see the risk of an AD as sufficiently remote that the benefits outweigh the risks. Let the debate begin...

My thoughts:

1. Saying a pistol without a round in the chamber is as useless as a rock or scissors is flatly wrong. If I had to choose between scissors and a loaded pistol w/o a round in the chamber, I am choosing the gun. But, given the choice, I'd choose a gun w/ a round in the chamber over a gun w/o a round in the chamber.

2. Telling someone that if they won't carry Condition 1, then they shouldn't carry at all is also wrong. Again, a person is better off with a gun w/o a chambered round than no gun at all. However, I encourage people to consider how many times their hammer has accidentally dropped on their unloaded chamber. So far, 100% of the people I've asked have said "never." When I started carrying, I conducted an experiment and actually carried my 1911 with a loaded magazine, chamber unloaded, hammer back, and safety off. I wanted to see how easy (or hard) it was to accidently jostle/bump the gun and make the hammer drop. After a month, it didn't happen once. So I began carrying with a chambered round and also use the safety.

In my experience, it's the women who are afraid to carry with one in the chamber. Like the rest of us, they recognize that they are increasing their risk of not being able to use their gun when they need it most, but that increased risk does not overcome their fear of an AD--by them or somebody else getting their hands on their gun. Even after months of owning and carrying their gun safely, they simply will not chamber a round. Again, I believe that person is better off in Condition 3 than with no gun at all. I say that we should encourage them to continue to carry and encourage (not berate) them to try carrying Condition 1 occasionally--like on a quick trip to the store. Just do it once and see how it goes. They will, hopefully, become comfortable with the notion and do it more and more. Like overcoming other fears, sometimes small steps lead to success.

3. In my personal life, I've drawn my gun, thinking I was going to fire it, exactly once. (A pit bull came out from under a porch onto the sidewalk and headed for a small dog that my daughter was walking). It happened very suddenly. My 1911 was in my hand and the safety was off before I even could think about what I was doing. I think dogs can sense fear. I also think they can sense when someone is not afraid. I had no fear as I yelled that dog back to his house, keeping the gun on him the whole time.) There are three or four other situations where I didn't need to pull my gun, but I encountered people rather unexpectedly. Had they been "bad guys" I don't think I would have had time to chamber a round. Once, a guy came up behind me in a parking lot as I was my loading groceries. He needed directions how to get back to the freeway. I turned around and there he was, 2 feet from me. Another time, my wife and I were walking to our car in a movie theater parking lot. 2 girls jumped out from between two cars to scare us. They mistook us for the parents of one of the girls. Had they been "bad guys" the fight would have been on at very close quarters with no notice. In that case, just getting my gun out might have been difficult. Chambering a round would have added a whole new level of complexity.

I am sorry for the long post. I'll conclude with this: If you don't carry Condition 1, I still say "good for you" just for having a gun with you! However, your gun becomes so much more useful when you carry with a round in the chamber. Take a hard look at your situation and maybe reconsider you position.

My best wishes to us all!

Yes

All six chambers