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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
In that case, go and load ALL your questionable 6.8's with 85 gr TSX's, use them for crackheads/HD, go buy yourself an AR-10 in 308W, load the 130 gr TTSX's to 2800 fps and kill the hell outta anything.
Gunner BINGO! Winning post, right there. And in 308, we can run them a bit faster than 2800 if we want to.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 227
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 227 |
I dont understand all the hoopla in this thread, when they become available, chrono a box of factory loads, reload to that velocity and accept the little cartridge for what it is. 200 fps means nothing in the real world, would I like to be hit with a 110 gr TTSX at: 2800 fps.....NO 2600 fps.....NO 2400 fps.....NO 2200 fps.....NO  Gunner Look up what velocity those Barnes TTSX need to be going before they expand or instead create a pencil hole. Thats why i hope this round works out. I would like to hunt boar with a 120gr Barnes TTSX. I bought a couple of boxes for my grendel then looked at the reloadding guide and saw the velocities and compared them to the required impact velocity for the Barnes TTSX and shelved the boxes. Can't use them in the Grendel. They simply don't go fast enough. Iv'e tried to back out of this idiocy. But here you go, what Barnes says they need to be going not to pencil. Rule of thumb and thats all. I've run a lot of barnes under what they claim impact speed has to be. Every last one has expanded. And I have seen pictures of some run faster than needed that did not... phuggin computers are great though ain't they. Thanks for your experienced input. That said i'll stick with a manufactures recommendations vs what some anonymous person says on a forum post that can't be validated in anyway.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Thanks for your experienced input. That said i'll stick with a manufactures recommendations vs what some anonymous person says on a forum post that can't be validated in anyway.
Just wanted to point out the irony of this statement in the context of your prvious responses....
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,807
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
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Sounds like an interesting cartridge to me.
That said, I'll wait for the dies to hit the RCBS standard list before I consider owning it.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
I dont understand all the hoopla in this thread, when they become available, chrono a box of factory loads, reload to that velocity and accept the little cartridge for what it is. 200 fps means nothing in the real world, would I like to be hit with a 110 gr TTSX at: 2800 fps.....NO 2600 fps.....NO 2400 fps.....NO 2200 fps.....NO Gunner Look up what velocity those Barnes TTSX need to be going before they expand or instead create a pencil hole. Thats why i hope this round works out. I would like to hunt boar with a 120gr Barnes TTSX. I bought a couple of boxes for my grendel then looked at the reloadding guide and saw the velocities and compared them to the required impact velocity for the Barnes TTSX and shelved the boxes. Can't use them in the Grendel. They simply don't go fast enough. Iv'e tried to back out of this idiocy. But here you go, what Barnes says they need to be going not to pencil. Rule of thumb and thats all. I've run a lot of barnes under what they claim impact speed has to be. Every last one has expanded. And I have seen pictures of some run faster than needed that did not... phuggin computers are great though ain't they. Thanks for your experienced input. That said i'll stick with a manufactures recommendations vs what some anonymous person says on a forum post that can't be validated in anyway. More than welcome to. But I bring real world experience to this conversation, not some computer calculation. I suspect I may have fired the AR a bit more than most excepting those in combat. And I've a hair of deer shooting experience since we can shoot from 4 or 5 deer up to however many tags you want to pay for in certain areas. But by all means go with what you read and calculate. BTW how are you validating the data the designer is claiming RE this new soon to be out round? Only way you could validate is watch him shoot it or shoot your own over your own chronograph.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,276
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,276 |
Not skeered of wildcats here. At last count I've formed cases for five of them, and have reformed others, when I had a specific reason to do so. Made .22-250's from small primer .308's once, without any special dies. They worked okay, just weren't worth the trouble.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
Not skeered of wildcats here. At last count I've formed cases for five of them, and have reformed others, when I had a specific reason to do so. Made .22-250's from small primer .308's once, without any special dies. They worked okay, just weren't worth the trouble. My list of wildcats is fairly extensive as well, including 22K Hornet, 22 Cheetah Mk 1 and MK ll, 22-250AI, 22/204, 6mmAI, 6/284, 250AI, 7mm Mashburn Super, 300 Belted Newton, 338/8mm RemMag, 348AI and I am sure a few others I am forgetting. That said, I do NOT try to make or claim that an itty bitty little cartridge is remotely as good as a bigger one, or that it is even sufficient for game that is way above its pay grade. Who here would have given a second look at a wildcat for a bolt action or lever action rifle that was a 30 Rem or 250 Savage or similar necked down to .277? The collective YAWN such a round would have garnered would be deafening. Yet because this pipsqueak round can be housed in a butt ugly plastic semi automatic rifle that looks sorta like the ones our guys are using in the sandbox, some folks get al giddy about it. Sheesh..... Useable and interesting velocity's are not reachable ulness one drops down to very low SD bullets and / or plays rifle roulette with nutso pressures. Just buy a damned hunting rifle, and leave the matchbox rifles for the purposes they are good at (and very good at those, BTW).
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3 |
BTW how are you validating the data the designer is claiming RE this new soon to be out round? Only way you could validate is watch him shoot it or shoot your own over your own chronograph.
See that's different, because the designer is trying to sell something. No one would ever be led astray by someone trying to sell them something. 
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3 |
Who here would have given a second look at a wildcat for a bolt action or lever action rifle that was a 30 Rem or 250 Savage or similar necked down to .277? The collective YAWN such a round would have garnered would be deafening. Yet because this pipsqueak round can be housed in a butt ugly plastic semi automatic rifle that looks sorta like the ones our guys are using in the sandbox, some folks get al giddy about it. Sheesh.....
Bahahaha. But Mark, with this one you could pretend to be P.O. Ackley and play Navy Seals vs. The Taliban at the same time!
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
Glad you liked my analogy and drawing out of the comparison and folly.
I like my AR's, but I know what they are and are not. Just like my Harley ain't my pickup truck. When I need to do something big, I get the keys to the pickup and don't try to hitch a trailer to the bike, saying it can do it if I just run the RPMS at 6300 the whole way.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3 |
I like my AR's, but I know what they are and are not. Just like my Harley ain't my pickup truck. When I need to do something big, I get the keys to the pickup and don't try to hitch a trailer to the bike, saying it can do it if I just run the RPMS at 6300 the whole way.
That's a very good analogy; I agree. Personally, when using a semi-auto, I have little interest in one chambered for a wildcat cartridge, and zero interest in one which uses expensive parent brass, due to the brass retrieval issue. It's just too easy to lose brass in a field shooting scenario.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,676 Likes: 1 |
Yeah...'cause what the world needs right now is another cartridge we can't get.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3 |
I like my AR's, but I know what they are and are not. Just like my Harley ain't my pickup truck. When I need to do something big, I get the keys to the pickup and don't try to hitch a trailer to the bike, saying it can do it if I just run the RPMS at 6300 the whole way.
That's a very good analogy; I agree. Personally, when using a semi-auto, I have little interest in one chambered for a wildcat cartridge, and zero interest in one which uses expensive parent brass, due to the brass retrieval issue. It's just too easy to lose brass in a field shooting scenario. Digging through a 3 foot snowbank for $1.10 a piece (plus time spent forming) brass sounds like lots of FUN.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,276 |
They sell brass catcher gadgets, too. 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,717
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,717 |
I'd still love to pull up beside the feller plinking away with this little anemic prick and wail a 140 TTSX by way of a 7-08 R25 across a 600 yard stretch and biitch slap the gong at the other end.
If I were smart enough, which apparently I'm not
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,152 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,152 Likes: 18 |
I wouldn't think a 270 AR would exactly be anemic at 600 yards. 140 AB, 20" bbl, BL-C2, 59K psi, 2600 fps.
Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 4500 ft.
Air density : 0.061325 lb./ft�
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Gun / Ammunition : .30 Rem AR, edited to 270 AR
Bullet : .277, 140, Nosler AccuBond 54765
Bullet weight : 140 grains or 9.07 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 2603 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.496@V>0 fps;
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 20 fps
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�Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds �
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| 0 2603 0.0000 2106 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 100 2463 0.1184 1885 +1.8 0.5 0.52 2.7 -5.1 -1.76 0.79
M 120 2435 0.1425 1843 +2.0 0.7 0.59 3.8 -4.5 -1.56 0.95
X 200 2327 0.2428 1682 0.0 2.2 1.04 11.0 0.0 0.00 1.62
P 246 2266 0.3031 1595 -3.0 3.4 1.34 16.9 +3.4 +1.16 2.02
| 300 2195 0.3761 1498 -8.4 5.3 1.70 25.8 +7.8 +2.67 2.51
| 400 2068 0.5173 1329 -24.0 9.9 2.37 47.9 +16.7 +5.73 3.45
| 500 1945 0.6655 1175 -47.4 15.7 3.00 77.8 +26.3 +9.05 4.44
| 600 1825 0.8238 1035 -79.9 23.3 3.70 116.8 +37.0 +12.72 5.49
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
I'd still love to pull up beside the feller plinking away with this little anemic prick and wail a 140 TTSX by way of a 7-08 R25 across a 600 yard stretch and biitch slap the gong at the other end. Ya'd have to wait till I was otu of ammo for my 223 so the gong would quit moving with each hit though. But I'd humor ya at the end of a mag.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,355 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,355 Likes: 1 |
yep the louder and bigger you are the badder you are that is a known fact.  Wow another 6.8 caliber AR cartridge...so what. Second if I need more than a 5.56 I will use a bolt gun in one of 3 other calibers I own. I am down to 3 these days... So far 3 pigs and 1 10 point are dead in two years with the 5.56.
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 227
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 227 |
Pig shooter, we are just trying to educate you so you have realistic expectations regarding what can, and cannot be done with a new wildcat.
We've seen the promises that never materialize, and know the tricks to maximize velocity.
Once you've lengthened the throat, lengthened the barrel, matched the most modern powder to the barrel length/bullet choice, and increased the case capacity, all that's left is to ramp up the pressure.
Since many of us on this forum own custom rifes and chronographs we've been testing what does, and does not work since the 80's. We are familiar with the effects of custom barrels and changes in OAL.
Oh by the way, if you increase OAL, which way does the pressure go?
You forgot strengthen the bolt.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
All to shoot a deer like its a hundred yards closer..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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