Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Horse Problem........What to do????

Need One,I am just wondering,you said you cant bring yourself to stick a deer?Why do you feel that way? I am guessing you rifle hunt?<BR>I felt that way for awhile,ButI am not sure why I felt that way.I was thinking maybe because I was so used to seeing and getting everything with a rifle that I couldnt see where a bow would do the trick.I have changed my mind---or so I think ,as I havent yet taken anything with a bow.I will be trying this fall.(and I sure am not giving up my rifle)

MD4, nobody asked me but like Sonnie I can't stick one either. I'll tell you why if you will please believe that I am not fussing at you are anyone else for bow hunting. I don't like the way they kill and where I hunt it is too thick. I have found too many dead deer with an arrow stuck in them (5 in the last two seasons) for me to trust a bow. A deer hit with an arrow has to bleed to death and there isn't any tissue destruction to speak of. Deer gets out of sight you likely won't find him. I know it happens with rifles too but not as likely.<BR>BCR

Boggy,you wont see me getting upset over someone thinking different then me,I asked and I am glad you spoke up.<BR>I can understand what your saying, no one likes to see any animal not put down fast.<BR>I can see where that thick stuff would make it hard to track in and the fact that once you get one with a bow you want to leave it alone for a while.<BR>I will have to give it my best and see if I can get something in range.Last year being my first to hunt deer with a bow I had a doe at about 30 yard ,I had my pin on her but I couldnt let it fly. LOL It looked like a long way out for just a sharp stick LOL.<BR>This year I feel alot better about it and I might be able to let one fly.But then again you know how hunting goes, I wont get the chance this time LOL<BR>Like I said I will not be giving up my rifle anytime soon ---I couldnt take not getting to bring home some meat.Its been about 12 years in a row now that I have gotten something with my rifle. Eating my tag would be a real hard thing to do LOL

Sonnie....I had a PSE a few bows ago....great bows, but I'm looking for the most speed I can get, and that just about leaves me shooting a high dollar bow and a carbon arrow. While guiding for B'cat, we called dozens of bulls into 50 yards, but then they'd hang up, looking for the cow. Getting them to 50 yards was a lot easier than getting them to 30. A fast bow can easily extend a hunters range to 50 or 60 yards.<P>Boggy, I have to disagree with you on this. I have bowhunted whitetails in the south for nearly 20 years, and only remeber loosing two. In that same time, I lost at least that many with a gun. I have killed over 250 whitetails in 25 years of hunting them, and have had my share of watching them die.<BR>I have taken deer with a bow that never left my sight they expired so quickly. I almost always have a blood trail that looks like someone used a red paint bucket. A well placed, sharp broadhead will sever enough arterys that a deer will usually expire within only a hundred yards or so. I've had them stand there and never even know they've been hit, then just see their legs go out from under them. I know many Antis like to use bowhunting as the symbol of barbaric hunting and suffering, but I can tell you, most people that take the time to chase deer or elk with a stick, know their business, and are capable of a well placed shot, which has a super high percentage of recovery.<BR>....I didn't mean to go off here, but I firmly believ bowhunting is both ethical humane, as well as productive, when a hunter has fined tuned his game. The same thing can be said for gun hunting, unless a hunter fine tunes his game, their can be some horrible situations there as well.<P>B'cat, I did just like you told me,...went out and got the chain, and haven't had any problems since! Hope you and Big D got a second chance at that big ol bear this week!<BR>DS

Well you may call it SQUAW BROKE, but I have done rather well in all the trail I have been in. I have placed first a many times. I had one gelding that would sit back and pull posts out of the ground. I didn't correct that with chains, I simply taught him to ground tie. Afterwards I could tie him up whenever I wanted, and he doesn't pull anymore. <P> The vet in our area says we have the best behaved horses she has worked with. He never has to twitch or tranquilize them. I have used a chain over my mares nose, but I use the way you would with a dog on a choke chain.<P> I'll see if I can get my mom to scan some pictures from the vet book. Even the people with the Lipizzan stallion show tie their horses with 'fishing line type string' so it will snap as soon as they pull in anyway. I have seen a horse die because of it( AND IT NEVER PULLED AGAIN!), but I guess it actually has to happen to some people before they think twice about doing it again.<P> Its been lucky that nothing has happen so far, just like some people get away with drinking and driving without killing themselves or anyone else. ( I don't reccommend it) As my friend here with me says "at least it keeps the vets in business."<P>Well I'll let everyone carry on with their "breaking" techniques, rather than "training," I find it nicer to have a horse that'll trust me and do anything for me when I "ask" it to.<P>The problem with Squaw broke horses is,its the old fashion people that don't know how to ask it to do what you want.<BR>It ends up being a slave and master relationship rather than a friendship or partnership, because people aren't willing to educate themselves, and take the easy abusive road instead.<P>

Slayer friend, On the bow hunting I won't argue with you. Like I said to MD4 I am not fussing. I won't ever fuss at anybody doing any thing legal that they like to do. I wonder about it sometimes though. <BR>I just said that I (me myself only) won't stick one with a bownarrer and said why.<BR>BCR

.......Boggy, I did "respectfully" disagree.....as, in my opinion, you sre one of the most knowledgable posters on this board, I I respect your opinions immensly.....<BR>...I guess that os why I felt the need to "defend" my choice to bowhunt.....<P>I respect yours and Sonnie's decision not to,.....just hope you guys don't think any less of me because I choose to.....<P>......looks like Tonya is a little riled about the "squaw broke" comment! <BR>....I think B'cat was only making a point, that women sometimes are a little "softer" on horse or other animals than those darn ol' calice men are! <BR>DS

Hey DS ,I have a good one for you on squaw broke horses .Just a little twist.<BR>When I worked for a veterinarian as a tech. i went out on lots of farm calls.Well being that i am (lets say not very tall)LOL<BR>some of the men had a hard time believing i could handle THERE horses.<BR>I had been out to this house before while working on a big thorougbred that had a bad cut on his leg.The next time we went out the owner was there and pitched a big fit that I could not handle this horse,my boss tried to tell him we worked togather all the time and he would rather I handled the horses for him.<BR>Well after going round and round my boss gave in. So here stands this owner right in front of the horse petting his little nose and saying now dont be scared you know I am your friend it wont hurt.It was so hard not to laugh but my boss gives me the LOOK like watch out here in comes----and as soon as he touched the leg that great big old horse struck out and nailed the guy right between the legs and sent him flying throught the pole fence,he broke it with his back let go of the horse and was in a ball on the ground.<BR>My boss never missing a beat said Hey Deb grab the horse and lets get this job done LOL<BR>The owner finally gets up and limp into the house----He never came out again when we had to come back.<BR>He was upset that we had used a twitch on his (new best friend)Didnt seem to mind after that.<BR>Sometime its the men that are bad.<BR>S

Killer, -- ole "no" don't care what you hunt with, I know one guy that shot five deer, with his bow, year before last in Kalifornia and recovered one. He also shot a bear, even hunted for it with a flashlight and his WIFE. I don't have to hunt with a bow and take a chance, so I don't, just like I don't take long shots at game, I don't have to. Not to say I haven't or won't take a shot across a meadow or canyon, but everything must be right. Wounded suffering animals are not my thing, when I touch that trigger I am sure of the outcome and it's not a Texas heart shot. If the shot is not what it should be the animal wins and I eat beef. I hunt off other hunters pushing the game around and I have the advantage of placing the shot. Out back wilderness hunts are different and terrain dictate how anyone should hunt. To glass across canyon and try to stalk in Colorado is folly, far too many hunters on public land, especially the first three days of the season. JMHO -- no <P>------------------<BR>A hint to the wise is sufficient! Smiles are contagious, infect everyone!

Slayer Like I said I never think less of anybody hunting any legal way that pleases them. I admire your ability to sneak close enough to one to stick it I just don't want to do it myself. <BR>On the horse deal you can have either a working horse or a pet horse. Not to say you and your horse can't be friends and partners but you are going to have to come down heavy on one side or the other. You take your pick because only you know what you want.<BR>Now this is just my thinking after a lot of years of watching. Where people get in trouble with horses is they forget they are animals. They ain't furry people. Their mind doesn't work like yours does. They are large, strong, relatively stupid animals that are prone to nervous prostration when put under strange and unsettling circumstances. They can and will kill you in a heartbeat maybe not meaning to but still will.<BR>It is nice to have a horse trained to ground tie. But you let a thunder storm come up while you are off somewhere and your pony is ground tied and a bolt of lightening and clap of thunder and you can go look for him back at the barn cause he is going home if he can. Doesn't even take that, just let a plastic bag blow in his face. He is going back and when he busts the "tie" he is gone.<BR>Take care of your horse and like your horse just don't forget for a moment that he is a horse.<BR>BCR

Boggy, one of the best posts I've read in a long time,...and make no mistake, I want him to work. I'll head your words.....<P>Sonnie, I can tell by your words, you have hunted more than your share of seasons in Co.<BR>You describe it to a "T"......<P>Deb,.....good on ya, again!....your so right that a lot of the times it's us big men who are bad! <BR>DS

I guess I have to stick my nose into both topics in this discussion. First of all Tonya, the "SQUAW BROKE" comment was a HUGE generalization and not a shot at you. I am sure you are a very good horseman/horsewoman and second of all, I know the difference between training and breaking. Both methods can and should be used when training a horse. I despise heavy handed horse breakers, because they can ruin a horse just as fast as someone who squaw breaks their horse. Horses with bad habits tend to those that have been spoiled and have got away with something, and the "TRAINER" wasnt much of a trainer. I would never beat on a horse, and I dont believe in it. The horse I ride is very high spirited, and someone has worked him over around his head, but after a couple years we have got him to trust us and isnt nearly as headshy as he used to be. You know what I mean about spoiled SQUAW BROKE horses. ANd in saying that it doesnt have to be a squaw that did it, but rather someone who is afraid to make the horse mind his manners.<BR>On the archery subject. I was always the one saying "thats why the indians lost the war"!!! Until last year after we had a lion hunter that was really good with a bow. I have never seen a lion come out of the tree deader than when killed with a bow. Frank got me interested in hunting with a bow and I really love it now. I am very hesitant to let the arrows go because I am not confident past thirty yards yet, because I too have found lots of wounded game because of arrows. On the other hand I have found lots of wounded game from rifles too, so I guess it all boils down to the good and the bad archers, and same with the rifle hunters. I know that with the right bow and lots of practice, I have witnessed Frank shoot a barn cat with a rubber tipped arrow at 80 yards. Jason Lee can also hit consistantly at that range with his bow. I am not that good and may never be, but I enjoy getting close to the animals, whether I get to shoot at them or not. The closest I ever got was ten yards last fall and the hunter stuck the big 6x6 in the shoulder bone and the arrow fell out. We bugled the bull for another half hour or so but couldnt get within the majic 40 yard range of this hunter. He was within 80 yards the whole time, but too far for his comfortable shooting range. I have killed elk that had arrrows stuck in them from archery season and it aint pretty!! But it is fun and I am going to continue doing it becuase it gives me another month to hunt!!! bcat<P>------------------<BR>If you aint the lead dog the scenery never changes [img]http://www.hunttalk.com/icon/bcatrunningcat.gif.com/boykin][/img] <BR><A HREF="http://www.huntandlodge.com/Boykin/outfitter.html" TARGET=_blank>Boykin's Hunting <B>Homepage</B> </A>