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Sounds a lot like raising kids..........

Vigil guy, lets say a feller has three goats---adult whethers. How much time per week is required to take good care of them (feed, water, pet 'em, read to em, tuck 'em in at night do their hair, clip their toe-nails, etc.)?

Trying to figure out if I have the time (and the desire). The whole idea of having a critter do the heavy lifting really appeals to me though.

Thanks,


Jordan

I would think that if you have to ask the question you really don't have the time. Like anything else in livestock you get out what you put into it.

Wildone:

I grew up on a dairy farm and did not pursue that career path for good reason! The goat thing does make me a little nervous.

Hmmmm...the least amount of time for three wethers, I would say...no less than a half hour per day during the week and a couple of hours on Saturday. Make sure that they have FRESH water in their buckets. They need it to prevent UC, and they won't drink it if it is dirty and /or its been pooped in. I feed mine in the morning and at night. Take five minutes to scratch them. Every three or four months I trim their hooves. Worm them twice a year and give them CDT shots twice a year. Saturdays, I'll take them out for a short hike. They get rusty with their trail manners. A squirt bottle full of water keeps them in line.

Carolyn Eddy has written some good books on caring for wethers. John Mionczynski's book is priceless as well.

To me, they are pretty low maintenance at home and on the trail. Much less than what I hear about horses. And goats won't kill you or injure you on the trail and they don't spook as easily.

Vigilguy:

I am seriously considering doing this. I talked to my wife about it tonight and she is intrigued. I need to cogitate on it for a week or so to make sure its not just a passing fancy.

Thank you for all the information.

Jordan

You are welcome. There are a lot of good resources out there that I can point you to.

I just muddle along, but there are lots of folks out there that know about this so much more than I do.

Here's my first goat trip. No luck but a fun solo hunt with my two buddies carrying the load.

leaves changing on drive in:


moose at trailhead:


Headed up:




Camp:


Headed out:
[img]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/conrad101st/IMG_2200_zpse4ac6c97.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/conrad101st/IMG_2201_zpsa0a2de07.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c319/conrad101st/IMG_2197_zps573c1b2b.jpg[/img]

Conrad, that is awesome. What can you tell us about your goat raising set-up? How many goats? How big is your corrall? Where did you get your goats (did you raise or buy them weaned)? How do you transport?

Thanks,


Jordan

Jordan:

I borrowed them from my hunting buddy. He was supposed to go but got stuck working but he let me take them. They took to me almost immediately and followed my like puppy dogs. They want to be right with you like your shadow.

My friends keeps them in a 5 acre paddock with his pack horse. They were bottle fed by the original owner but were purchased just last yea by my friend. Think they are about 4 or 5 years old.

It was great b/c the saddle packs literally take 30 seconds to clip on and your off. I left the ropes on and just wrapped them around the frame. When I got to a spot to glass, I would tether them to a tree behind but where they could still see me. No problem at all. They ate and laid there chewing grass like they were enjoying the outing. They are just amazing, they go wherever you can go - across scree, deadfall, dark timber, rocky outcroppings, steep slopes, etc.

In 5 days, they never drank water even though I was around several streams. They ate everything we came across - pine needles, weeds, grass, some snow, etc. I took no feed. I tied them to a tree by camp every night and gave them a good rubdown to make sure they were dry.

We have a ranch in Oklahoma. Think ill buy four. I'm a believer. They are food whores though, the big one was all over me if I had a granola bar opened.

I honestly think two goats could get a boned out elk off the mountain, if you hump your own gear and the rack out. Having them hump your gear up the mountain and to move camp saves your legs. All I carried was my empty ruck, rifle & binos. While we hunted, they carried the game bags, butcher kit, water bottles.

Complete game changer.

Thanks Conrad. Excellent. Thanks very much.

Jordan

Kevin, Actionshooter, Conrad...

Very interesting indeed, and I really appreciate the great photos too!

Having load-bearing critters that want to be with you and follow like puppy dogs sounds like a lot of fun!

Are the goats calm all the time, or are they sometimes spooked by something like a piece of paper blown by the wind? This happened to me on a horse once -- hence my question!

John

Vegetarian dogs. I had three a few years back. My buddy has two now. They are the true solution for backpacking companions.

They only seemed to get upset momentarily if separated and would bleat a little.
I never saw them get spooked. I wasn't too worried about predators munching on them as they were within earshot at all times and had my trusty sako ready to defend hoof and pack.

If you've read the Snubbie & Rock Chuck thread, you know that my choice was llamas. Both animals work great but they're different. It depends on your situation and personal preference. Since I have the llamas and raise meat goats, I know a bit about both.

Either one takes 4 years to grow to maturity. Overloading them while too young can damage leg tendons beyond repair so patience is a virtue. I have a 3 yo llama that's been on every trip I've taken since he was 6 months old. The 1st year he was a tag along, carrying nothing. The 2d year he carried an empty saddle. This year, he can handle 30 lb. He'll be mature next year and his load will depend on how much he grows this next year. Conditioning is ESSENTIAL with either animal. Plan on numerous long hikes with increasingly heavy loads before you can get the work from them. I load the panniers with water jugs and keep adding jugs as they get in shape. Throw a couple gallons of water in your own day pack while you're at it. It'll pay off later. I should know! As hunting season approaches, I try to get them out twice a week for a hike in steep country. I'm retired now and have the time to do that but it was a struggle in past years.

Goats are easier to handle on the trail because you can just let them run loose. If you try that with a llama, you might find him waiting at the trailhead.

The biggest advantage of a llama is that a big one can carry 80lb or more. A llama can carry both haunches off a medium sized elk with the long bones still in.

IMPORTANT: always carry a small hanging scale large enough to weight a fully loaded pannier. Don't overload the animals and be sure to balance the panniers from side to side. An off balance load is harder on their backs than an overload.

Either animal will eat almost anything so you don't have to carry feed. Llamas can take much more cold than goats so they don't need shelter, but they do have to be staked out in some manner. Llamas are sort of aloof and can be very hard to catch if they don't want to be caught. While packing, I use a 100' rope laid out on the ground with O-rings at intervals for tie rings. While hunting from the truck, I keep them in this portable electric corral with a battery operated fence charger. If they eat down everything in it, I can move it in about 30 min. This photo shows 2 wires around it. I had to add a 3d lower one to keep them from belly crawling under it. If you need to confine goats, an electric net would be preferable and easier to set up and move if needed.

One of the above posts mentioned training for water crossings. Llamas can be a real problem that way as well as goats. I had to do some hard core work to get them to even step over a small creek. Now they go right into belly deep...clear water. They have a sense of self preservation. If the water's muddy and they can't see the bottom, they don't want to step in it. If a llama doesn't want to go in, it takes a winch to move him. If you can get the leader to step in, usually the rest will follow.
Llamas have a bad habit of jumping small creeks and logs. Jumping is big time BAD. It can throw off a pannier and when they hit the end of the lead rope on the trailing llama, they'll jerk him and possibly break the rope or saddle tie ring. It's very difficult to break them of jumping. When I come to a jumpable creek or log, I stop and let them bunch up then SLOWLY lead them over. I also use extra long lead ropes. Then if one jumps, the following animal has some slack to hopefully not get jerked.

Good thread you guys

Not going to pretend to know anywhere near as much as Vigilguy, but growing up we always had a few goats around. My opinion, goats get a bad rep.

We had probably a 20x30 pen at night and a few acres fenced off for them during the day, but often times they ran loose. Never were on the cars and didn't bother anything around the house.

They'd run up onto the deck if one of the dogs chased them.

I had a few more later on in my teens, don't ever remember thinking of them as work to have around. They'd just follow us as we did the other chores, mainly horse related.

Goats are natural climbers. If you had them running loose and they didn't get up on cars, that's very unusual. They love high places and a car roof is a goat magnet.
They're very sociable. We keep ours fenced in but I can't do anything in the pasture without the whole bunch being right there to supervise.

I got a real laugh last summer when I was in a pasture working on a sprinkler. We had the llamas, a few goats, and my wife's geese all in the same pasture. She came out to talk to me and as she walked, the goats were right behind her, followed by 4 geese, followed by 4 llamas. She was leading a great farm parade. It was hilarious.

Mine are pretty calm. If they do get spooked on the trail or in camp, it's not a major life threatening moment. They huddle really close, around me. I have known other pack animals to take off and head back to the trailhead. My goats would never do that. Rental goats might though.