Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Griz Defense with Bergers

Much needed as in if the situation got to the point where I was carrying a rifle and had to reach for the handgun, the handgun could be used to trace ownership to determine the body was mine.

kutenay... I'm with you, I'd like to see the actual "study" before giving it a nod.

The two peer-reviewed retrospective studies I know of comparing the success of bear defense with firearms vs pepper spray were, in my view, significantly flawed because they failed to take into account the basic differences in bear attacks on unarmed hikers/forestry workers and attacks on hunters. But there is no question that people CAN and DO defend themselves effectively with firearms at times.

I'd like to hear Phil Shoemaker's take on this. He's our resident bear-killing member, I'd like to know what he thinks. I have no comment to make on the Berger bullet for bear defense but would like to know his take.

I've not shot a charging bear, but I've been bluff-charged, and have had a lot of up-close exposure to bears over 30+ years in the course of my outdoor recreation when I lived in my native Alberta. I also did some bear-country biologist work when I was a college student. This latter job earned me a slot at a class where we shot "charging" bear targets with 12-gauge slugs... this was the same class all provincial F&G officers took, btw. We were taught to aim at the "center of mass", which is basically the center of the chest under the chin. We were trained to take the time to make ONE good shot, because there is likely not enough time for a second one unless you anchor the bruin with your first shot.

At that time (1975) Alberta wildlife officers carried 12-ga 870's as bear medicine. Last time I talked to a ranger on patrol in bear country, in 1996 in Peter Lougheed Provincial Park where there was a LOT of grizzly activity, he was carrying an iron-sighted 300 Win Mag. He told me they'd had some "poor outcomes" with the slug guns on grizzlies, so had upped the ante.

There is no question that as grizzly populations increase in the mountain west, the frequency of hunters getting into dangerous encounters with grizzlies has also increased. In some areas, as one other member posted earlier, grizzlies hear a rifle shot and their innate response is to think "Elk for supper!". They will and have killed hunters to claim a fresh carcass.

My take-away from all of this is that if I'm hunting ungulates in grizzly country, I would prefer to carry a rifle chambered for a cartridge that will work reliably on griz, and that rifle is going to be set up for close work but can be upped to higher power if an elk is spotted at distance. A .308 class or better rifle, topped with a 1-4X or 2-8X scope left on the lowest setting until a distance shot presents itself, would suffice. Heavy-for-caliber premium bullets are preferable; they'll work fine on elk or deer or moose too.

I would not choose to hunt alone in grizzly country, and I would definitely not field dress or pack meat alone.

As always on these bear threads, I strongly recommend Gary Shelton's books on bear behavior and defense against bear attacks. Ignorance of these magnificent animals' behavior has cost many a bear and many a hunter dearly, and ignorance is never an excuse for killing or being killed.

The reference to Gary Shelton...

...I seem to recall that Gary arrived in BC around that time and he is 2-3 years older than I am.

So, yeah, get his books, read them and see what YOU think, I find them to be excellent, although some of his opinions are not the ones I hold.

I would be very interested in the actual provenance for this particular study? If, done here in BC, it could be from one of the two "competing" groups currently involved in the controversy here regarding Grizzly hunting. So, assuming you have the title,ect., please post a link?

Concerning the OP's query, there is certainly a lot of opinion posted here and some seems a bit contradictory and some "facts" appear to be different in different posts.

However, since Phil Shoemaker, has often posted his opinion on bullets for bears, it seems to me that doing as he suggests and MD, whose credibility as with "BOBinNH", is simply beyond question, well, legitimate question, and going with the bullets that he uses.

I usually, by choice, hunt,hike, camp and fish alone and have done here for almost 50 years. When, I do carry a gun, I have developed "heavy for caliber" loads with NOSLER PARTITION bullets for all of my rifles, except my .220Swift. Based on some experience and the comments by those whom I respect, these work very well, are easily available and while costly, are not SO expensive that one cannot practice with some from each box to make SURE you can hit what you want to and operate your gun well.

I have Brenneke slugs for my two Benelli 12 bores, one a 14" model which is my "tent gun", as I sold my Redhawk.44M, because it is too much hassle to bother with the permits and I like to keep a short,powerful gun in my tent when sleeping. I have no illusions about these relative to my .338s, 9.3s or .375s, in performance, but, this is the best legal option I now have.

I hope Phil S. chimes in here, as he is the REAL expert and his comments on anything to do with any bears always interest me. If, he suggests a certain load for a given rifle that, IMO, is a VERY good place to start load development for your particular rifle, noting the usual caution concerning "starting" charges.

Again, IF that study IS from BC, I would like to see it, thanks.

Stick that 155 in it's neck/dome/throat and I doubt it'd be too mouthy.

I'm sure those were close range, charging bears.
Laffin...