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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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In summary apparently John Burns wants me to do his wife, but I ain't into Korean dudes. It's 3 AM in the morning and this is what is ratting around in your brain? Tough time sleeping? Yeah, that's not the slightest bit creepy. Swabbie's fallback position is to always bring male loins into the discussion, damn-near without fail.
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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No one has suggested a gun bearer to the OP, have they? UncleJesse could pack his 308 with the Bergers, and his gun bearer could stay in close proximity with a 'stopping' rifle. Maybe a 600NE or 4-bore double. Or a bolt gun in 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs. Sounds reasonable.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
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John. What range and impact velocities did those Bergers kill those bears? And what shot angle and placement? Oh, what caliber n weight? Hey! No cheating on your homework. You need to go back and read...skimming is cheating. This ain't bear defense 101. ,,,,, or perhaps it actually is.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
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Anyway, I'm glad we solved this debate, unanimously reaching the conclusion that Bergers, while not an ideal choice for fending off bears, are certainly adequate, if shot or shots are placed properly. Thanks to all who have tirelessly participated in a sincere effort to reach a factual conclusion.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
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good luck placing shots 'properly' while 'fending off bears'.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3 |
Good grief,the best way to stop a charging Grizzly bear..... Take away it's credit card!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Posts: 5,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
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Maybe this bullet is one everyone can agree on for stopping charging bears (sorry, couldn't make the pic appear, but here's a link): http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/edgeco1/BarnesX-Bullets45-70Government.bmp45 cal, 300gr Barnes TSX. Here's a pic of a recovered/expanded one: If the bullet is large enough to begin with, expansion is just icing on the cake. No? Given all the discussion and advice given here, I'm still taking a bag of White Castles.
Our God reigns. Harrumph!!! I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
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John I know why you use them.....you like them. Or.....I pray I don't run into a Griz while making my next video.......but my production company guys are carrying proper guns just in case......
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,950 |
Good grief,the best way to stop a charging Grizzly bear..... Take away it's credit card! He'll just get another, darn charging bears.
Our God reigns. Harrumph!!! I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,162 Likes: 3 |
Good grief,the best way to stop a charging Grizzly bear..... Take away it's credit card! He'll just get another, darn charging bears. The B**TARD!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
If you are really worried about a Grizzly Attack while hunting other game then carry a rifle and cal designed to hunt Bear with at close range, starting with the 338 and 250 gr Partitions and go up from there . I would be willing to bet if a Grizzly actually charged at butt screwing range any rifle and load would feel puny in your hands and it would be a one shot deal before the bear was chewing on you. Regardless of the bullet and cal you had better do it right the first shot. I have always been in Elmer Keith corner, Big Bullets make Big Holes where they expand or not . I believe you would be better off with penetration rather than quick expansion if you want to survive a animal the size of any bear bend on hurting you . If you hunt in Bear country use what you feel comfortable with , it is your life and your decision. If you survive or if you don't. you will still make a good story for Outdoor Life Magazine .
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I saw a smallish brown bear shot in the chest at a quartering angle with that 300gr barnes out of a .458 socom. The animal was pretty unimpressed. The onset of darkness finally made us give up a spotty blood trail for the night. The next morning you could see where the bear had turned, flanked his trail, and laid in wait about 30 yards from where we gave up the night before. Thankfully in the night he must have grown bored. There was no more sign of him after that.
I think that between the angle the bear was at, and the likely limited penetration of a low S.D. bullet, that only one lung was holed.
Last edited by pabucktail; 11/02/13.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
If the bullet is large enough to begin with, expansion is just icing on the cake. No?
I realize this has little or nothing to do with this discussion, but I would opine that shape and size of frontal area of expanding/expanded projectile matter more (along with speed of moving projectile) than does the diameter of the original bullet. Of course the original diameter may affect those details.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I guess a fella could use Bergers on charging grizzlies a couple of times, and if they didn't work, he could change to something else.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
If the bullet is large enough to begin with, expansion is just icing on the cake. No?
I realize this has little or nothing to do with this discussion, but I would opine that shape and size of frontal area of expanding/expanded projectile matter more (along with speed of moving projectile) than does the diameter of the original bullet. Of course the original diameter may affect those details. I always thought this was true. Still do. Royce, experience with charging grizzlies does not come cheap for most of us; nor frequently. But the issue sure does get a lot of ink
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
The thing is if and when one does get charged by a grizz at close range it is not a time for iffy bullets. My choice is most certainly one that has proven itself in action not simply in theory. If one fails to stop the charge quickly the damage is bad
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The thing is if and when one does get charged by a grizz at close range it is not a time for iffy bullets. My choice is most certainly one that has proven itself in action not simply in theory. If one fails to stop the charge quickly the damage is bad
Based on actual field experience, I'd say that "damage" is certainly the operative word in this whole equation of charging brown/grizzly bears and inadequate bullets.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 118
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 118 |
I was talking to a reputable AK guide and looking at pics of hunts and noticed he was carrying a safari rifle. I asked if he hunted with that rifle and his response was no we have been running into a fair share of bears lately and its the largest cartridge I shoot well. It was a 416 Rem. He advised it penetrates deep an breaks stuff in its path.
"Fast is fine accurate is final"
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I guess a fella could use Bergers on charging grizzlies a couple of times, and if they didn't work, he could change to something else. JohnBurns is ready. I'll pitch in or even show up to film and help pack it out when he DRT's it
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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I guess a fella could use Bergers on charging grizzlies a couple of times, and if they didn't work, he could change to something else. I'd bet that if they didn't work there wouldn't be a second time
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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