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Originally Posted by Ringman
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RM, Hillybilly brings up a good point. Did every animal on earth live within walking distance of Noah's house, and if they did, how did Noah fit all the dinosaurs onto the ark?


Many people, including geologists, believe in a single continent which broke up and formed the continents we now see. I happen to be one of those folks after watching a video called "In the Beginning". God brought the animals with the breath of life in their nostrils, including dinosaurs, to the ark. So, yes, everything was within walking distance. God gave Noah 120 years to build the ark so there was lot's of time. Maybe it took a couple generations,or maybe not, for the animals to get there. We have no way of knowing how long animals lived prior to the Flood when even the atmosphere was still "very good". Amber bubbles show there used to be a slightly higher atmospheric pressure and a higher amount of CO2. With higher pressure and higher CO2 plants would grow bigger and faster. This has been proven in modern scientific experiments.

A modern scientific discovery is the deterioration of the earth's magnetic field with a halflife of 1400 years. Another of modern scientific discoveries is the magnetic field blocks cosmic radiation. If we go back about 4,350 years when the flood happened the magnetic field would be at least eight or more times stronger than now. Another discovery is cosmic radiation can and does cause mutation and is deleterious to longevity. According to Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome The mutation accumulation rate in humans matches the decay rate of the patriarchs in Genesis Eleven. The author has over seventy patents on gene splicing so he knows a little about genetics.

Several people have come back from the Congo claiming to see a huge sauropod dinosaur. Others say they have seen flying reptiles in New Guinea. A few years ago a grave was unearth in Mexico. Apparently the guy buried there was a king or someone important. The diggers found the remains of a small dinosaur buried with him. Also scores of pottery were in the grave. Most had figurines of animals we are familiar with. About 20% had figurines of dinosaurs. The Bible talks about a flying serpent. Of course "everyone" knew that was an error. That is until a fossil of one was discovered in Southern Mexico.

If you are really serious about how Noah fit all the animals on the ark you could read the book Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study. But let's take a look at it from an ignorant Bible thumper who didn't even get a GED till age fifty-one.

I am convinced all elephants and mastodons and mammoths were descended from the elephant kind. The same thing goes for elk, deer, moose, etc. They came from the "deer" kind. Throw in the horse kind to include horses, donkeys, zebras, etc. The same would apply to the different kinds of dinosaurs. Noah could bring in young animals and birds that would not breed until after the year long boat ride. So they could all be much smaller than adults. I read the average size of animals from shrew to supersaurus dinosaur is about the size of a sheep. So we are not looking at a bunch of monsters. We don't need any aquatic creatures on the ark.

Now the size of the ark: Cubits range in size from about 18" to 22" after the Flood. If they were the same prior to the Flood they would average 20". The ark was 300 cubits long with a ratio of six to one length to width. That number happens to coincide with modern large craft. Noah's ark was about 500 feet long based on that average. I don't know but I bet he could have fitted about 200 modern railroad double-decker cattle cars on it. I have no idea how many sheep can fit in one of those cars but I bet at least a hundred.

As far as the fesses goes, there is a simple modern concept used in cattle pens. From what I have heard the cattle are on grates close enough together so their feet are fine. Below them live worms which decompose the animal waist.

This should answer a lot more than you asked for.



Wait, so evolution happened only really really fast huh? That and Pangaea broke up and the continents water skied across to their present locations in how many years?

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So, it's your contention that the pangea separated and the continents moved into their current locations in the last 1650 year?

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 11/20/13.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
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RM, Hillybilly brings up a good point. Did every animal on earth live within walking distance of Noah's house, and if they did, how did Noah fit all the dinosaurs onto the ark?


Many people, including geologists, believe in a single continent which broke up and formed the continents we now see. I happen to be one of those folks after watching a video called "In the Beginning". God brought the animals with the breath of life in their nostrils, including dinosaurs, to the ark. So, yes, everything was within walking distance. God gave Noah 120 years to build the ark so there was lot's of time. Maybe it took a couple generations,or maybe not, for the animals to get there. We have no way of knowing how long animals lived prior to the Flood when even the atmosphere was still "very good". Amber bubbles show there used to be a slightly higher atmospheric pressure and a higher amount of CO2. With higher pressure and higher CO2 plants would grow bigger and faster. This has been proven in modern scientific experiments.

A modern scientific discovery is the deterioration of the earth's magnetic field with a halflife of 1400 years. Another of modern scientific discoveries is the magnetic field blocks cosmic radiation. If we go back about 4,350 years when the flood happened the magnetic field would be at least eight or more times stronger than now. Another discovery is cosmic radiation can and does cause mutation and is deleterious to longevity. According to Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome The mutation accumulation rate in humans matches the decay rate of the patriarchs in Genesis Eleven. The author has over seventy patents on gene splicing so he knows a little about genetics.

Several people have come back from the Congo claiming to see a huge sauropod dinosaur. Others say they have seen flying reptiles in New Guinea. A few years ago a grave was unearth in Mexico. Apparently the guy buried there was a king or someone important. The diggers found the remains of a small dinosaur buried with him. Also scores of pottery were in the grave. Most had figurines of animals we are familiar with. About 20% had figurines of dinosaurs. The Bible talks about a flying serpent. Of course "everyone" knew that was an error. That is until a fossil of one was discovered in Southern Mexico.

If you are really serious about how Noah fit all the animals on the ark you could read the book Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study. But let's take a look at it from an ignorant Bible thumper who didn't even get a GED till age fifty-one.

I am convinced all elephants and mastodons and mammoths were descended from the elephant kind. The same thing goes for elk, deer, moose, etc. They came from the "deer" kind. Throw in the horse kind to include horses, donkeys, zebras, etc. The same would apply to the different kinds of dinosaurs. Noah could bring in young animals and birds that would not breed until after the year long boat ride. So they could all be much smaller than adults. I read the average size of animals from shrew to supersaurus dinosaur is about the size of a sheep. So we are not looking at a bunch of monsters. We don't need any aquatic creatures on the ark.

Now the size of the ark: Cubits range in size from about 18" to 22" after the Flood. If they were the same prior to the Flood they would average 20". The ark was 300 cubits long with a ratio of six to one length to width. That number happens to coincide with modern large craft. Noah's ark was about 500 feet long based on that average. I don't know but I bet he could have fitted about 200 modern railroad double-decker cattle cars on it. I have no idea how many sheep can fit in one of those cars but I bet at least a hundred.

As far as the fesses goes, there is a simple modern concept used in cattle pens. From what I have heard the cattle are on grates close enough together so their feet are fine. Below them live worms which decompose the animal waist.

This should answer a lot more than you asked for.


Thanks for answering. It doesn't fit any of the science I know but thanks for answering. I guess I'll always be a block headed Deist evolutionist.


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Originally Posted by RobJordan
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by RobJordan

To give you some idea of the complexity of a cell se the video below. The probabilities against chance and time assembling such a complicated chemical production factory are staggeringly small. But for the evolutionists, faith springs eternal....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU


That's because evolution is not the result of chance.

Uh, sorry Sniper, but all the leading evolutionists say it is chance mutations over time. Natural selection is just that: chance and time.

It's the result of selective forces.


The mutations are random. Some mutations are detrimental, most are benign, and some beneficial for the organisms conditions. It's the selective forces that determine which are most likely to be passed on to descendant generations. So, although the mutations are random, their prorogation is not.


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Right. Are those selective forces random and undirected?


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No. Selective forces act to cause non random changes of specific adaptive traits over time. As the name implies, selective forces are.....selective....not random....


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So, it's your contention that the pangea separated and the continents moved into their current locations in the last 1650 year?


I have no idea where the 1650 year figure came from. What would happen to the coastal lands if the continents moved into their approximate present locations in nine months!? We are talking about many yards per second! Modern tsunamis would be embarrassed. Couple that with raining continuously twenty-four seven for six weeks and then sporadically for a total of five months.

Where did all the rain come from? From the steam generated by the volcanic action under the oceans. Guess what modern geologist have discovered about the ocean floor. Most are a result of HUGE volcanic activity. Then we can couple that with tides with nothing to stop them from eroding the continents to nothing.

The Flood easily explains the folded sedimentary rock and the ice age. The Flood explains why there is no fault freesia between the layers of strata supposedly out of order based on evolutionism.

At times you forget there is a miracle working God in charge. The Flood was a judgment on a violent world of people and animals. God's Word tells us the world that existed then was destroyed by water. In one of His stories, Jesus uses the extensiveness of the Flood as an illustration of how extensive His return will be.


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Many religions far older than the Bible have their own early versions of creation and world floods.

But none of them come close to explaining the stories told by the rocks. That story goes back millions of years.

It is in the rocks we find the Word.


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6000-4350=1650.
Ok, maybe I had it backwards. You are saying Pangea existed 4350 years ago, and the continents expanded to cover an addition 1600 miles of the earth in the last 4k years? So continental drift has been moving at 4 miles per year?

What did the earths continents looks like in the time of Jesus and the Roman Empire?


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I see. So the selective force is directed, or the outcome is directed? What is that selective force.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Please. Grow up, The_Real_Hawkeye. You know you reject God's Word and accept men's. If you take a straight forward reading of God's Word you learn there was a world wide flood. Do you accept that? How can you and accept the geological column. A recent world wide flood destroy it and leave its own evidence.
Considering the corner you've painted yourself into, I don't blame you for dodging my very straightforward question. Here it is again, though, so all know which question you refuse to answer:

"Then I assume you will be consistent and deny that sperm meeting egg, forming a zygote, etc., has anything to do with human reproduction since the Bible only mentions men knowing women and conceiving. RIGHT? You're not, according to you, allowed to read into that a modern scientific understanding. So all conceptions were and are caused by men and women merely coming to know each other. If you believe otherwise, i.e., that there's more detail to it than that which was glossed over by the Bible, then you're choosing man's opinions against God's Word, which mentions nothing about sperms/eggs/zygotes, etc.."

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Originally Posted by RobJordan
I see. So the selective force is directed, or the outcome is directed? What is that selective force.


Selective forces can very with conditions. As an example, during wet conditions that favor plants with small seeds, this selective force would favor birds with small beaks, where dry conditions that favor large tough seeds could favor birds with larger tougher beaks. As the conditions vary over time and space, they will favor different adaptive traits.

The force itself is not "directed", the force is the result of prevailing conditions that vary over time and space. When you can move your thinking away from false dichotomies you can begin to under stand the nature of evolution.


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Originally Posted by RobJordan


Discovery.org doesn't cut the mustard.

Do you have something from a peer reviewed source?


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by RobJordan


Discovery.org doesn't cut the mustard.

Do you have something from a peer reviewed source?


Can't respond to the merits of the argument so you fall back on peer review? Who peer reviewed Origin of Species before its publication?


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Here is how "science" deals with dissent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqNPlwLwIP8

What are they afraid of??


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Science also deals that way with people who think the earth is flat. Must be a conspiracy I guess.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by RobJordan
I see. So the selective force is directed, or the outcome is directed? What is that selective force.


Selective forces can very with conditions. As an example, during wet conditions that favor plants with small seeds, this selective force would favor birds with small beaks, where dry conditions that favor large tough seeds could favor birds with larger tougher beaks. As the conditions vary over time and space, they will favor different adaptive traits.

The force itself is not "directed", the force is the result of prevailing conditions that vary over time and space. When you can move your thinking away from false dichotomies you can begin to under stand the nature of evolution.


I see. Are you talking about Finch beaks in the Gallagapos? That would be an example of natural selection resulting in change in beak size; not creation of a new species or even the creation of new genetic information. How do we get from there to evidence that the power that can cause changes in beak size can create life from inanimate matter or create new body plans altogether?


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Originally Posted by RobJordan

Who peer reviewed Origin of Species before its publication?


Jesus H. Christ...

Is this is the best comeback you have? You're so far over your head on this subject you will never catch up.


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Originally Posted by KCBighorn
Originally Posted by RobJordan

Who peer reviewed Origin of Species before its publication?


Jesus H. Christ...

Is this is the best comeback you have? You're so far over your head on this subject you will never catch up.



I take it from your response that you are unable to answer the question. The fact is, The Origin of Species was published without peer review. That's just one example of an important scientific publication or new theory being published without "peer review". The point is, Peer review ,, or the lack thereof rather, tells us absolutely nothing about whether a theory or argument is or is not valid. When Sniper tried to invoke "peer review" as a response to my question above, that was just a way to try to avoid answering the merits of the question. Sniper, will you address the merits if the article I linked above or will you continue to try and evade?

Last edited by RobJordan; 11/20/13.

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