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I don't let my kids climb over my rifle, my dog doesn't walk on it, and I clean it more than once every five years.

You hunt with whatever floats your boat, I'll continue rolling the dice with the CDS turrets and whacking critters like I have for several years now.


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Originally Posted by houston
I can not believe they opted a turret without a cap? WTH~
I may have to develop one in the shop!



The M1 does not have a cap, why dont they spin when being cased?

Why cant a guy just check the the zero when uncasing the rig?


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The M1 is more difficult to turn, when compared to the CDS.

An easy test is to take the heel of one's hand, and strike the turret with a glancing blow in the direction it turns. M1s don't move without a fairl hard hit. The exposed Nightforce turrets are similar or even more difficult. SWFA SS scopes, same story. A Leupold M3 doesn't turn at all (it's hard to turn, even when gripping it). The CDS moves with very little pressure, essentially taking the same amount of pressure as a Leupold Target Turret. The advantage the Target Turret has is it's cap.

I'm a huge fan of capped turrets on any rifle that will see real use.

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Originally Posted by passport
Originally Posted by houston
I can not believe they opted a turret without a cap? WTH~
I may have to develop one in the shop!



The M1 does not have a cap, why dont they spin when being cased?

Why cant a guy just check the the zero when uncasing the rig?


the knurling on the CDS knobs is more aggressive compared to the smooth scallops of the M1

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Originally Posted by iddave
I don't let my kids climb over my rifle, my dog doesn't walk on it, and I clean it more than once every five years.

You hunt with whatever floats your boat, I'll continue rolling the dice with the CDS turrets and whacking critters like I have for several years now.


Same to you.

All I know is that I'd rather take advice on what works and what doesn't from the guys who use the living schit out of their equipment. Even if I don't use my stuff that hard, it's from those who really put a test on equipment that I find what really works, and what is fluff.

I'm really not that tough on my gear, but I know plenty who are. I showed a CDS scope to a cousin who is one of those guys. First thing he did is grab it and spin it, commenting on how useless it would be in a saddle scabbard, which he has under his leg darned near every day of the year. Interestingly enough, a boat paddle 270 with a Leupold 6x has ridden in said scabbard since the mid 90s. He told me the only time it needed rezeroed was after a horse rolled over the top of the rifle and him, and even then it was only off like two inches at 100 yards. Oh yeah, he used it to shoot a mighty fine bull elk this year at around 400 yards, and shoots coyotes, hurt cattle, or whatever else needs killed on the reg.

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I don't have too many years of experience with CDS, but for 2 years now I have used them exclusively both in eastern and western, mountains, plains and woodland hunts. I agree with Prairie Goat that if I was one to have a daily, working rifle I would not have a turret (probably a 6x36 LRD), but through hard use for 2 long seasons, scabbards, cases, backpacks, brush, treestands, ATVs, and ground stalks I have yet to have it move more than 1 or 2 clicks off and usually it was right where I left it.

I should add that I had a zero-stop model.

Until I see more movement, even under hard use, for me, the lower profile and ease of use trump a taller target turret for almost all uses I can see in the near future of general BG hunting use.


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[quote=tdn]I don't have too many years of experience with CDS, but for 2 years now I have used them exclusively both in eastern and western, mountains, plains and woodland hunts. I agree with Prairie Goat that if I was one to have a daily, working rifle I would not have a turret (probably a 6x36 LRD), but through hard use for 2 long seasons, scabbards, cases, backpacks, brush, treestands, ATVs, and ground stalks I have yet to have it move more than 1 or 2 clicks off and usually it was right where I left it.

I should add that I had a zero-stop model.

What do mean by zero stop model?

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You can send in for an MOA or load specific CDS turret, which features a zero stop. This allows slightly less than one turn of elevation, but ensures that you won't be off by more than one turn. It's also possible to build your own zero stop into your existing turret, as one poster here mentioned.

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True- one of the turrets I used I kept it in MOA, but had them add the zero stop. Another I added the zero-stop myself with a small ball bearing (1/16" ?)


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Originally Posted by prairie_goat
I used that example to demonstrate that for some folks, a rifle is a constant companion, with them all year long. It needs to work everyday, and doesn't get babied. It may be cleaned once every 5 years, and live in a pickup when it's not being carried.....exposed to extremes of hot and cold, with kids and dogs climbing over it, food spilled on it, gear dumped on it, and basically be treated like a tool. If it randomly re-zeroes itself without warning, it's useless.

shooting coyotes on your own property to prevent stock loss, and for profit on their hides is not "road hunting". It's an essential part of ranch life, and something that happens hundreds of times everyday across the West.

Here's another example for those who may only use their rifles two weeks out of the year:

You're sneaking up through the junipers to get to the top of a ridge. Suddenly, a 30" Mule Deer busts out of the brush in front of you. He stops at the top of the ridge 200 yards off, just long enough for you to unsling your rifle, drop into a kneeling position, and fire. Oops, somewhere along the way, the brush turned your CDS turret. You miss the deer, and he's gone forever.

Of course, you could have reached back and checked your turret every five steps to make sure it's still on....but a better idea is to have a reliable turret.


You think kids will not twist on your M1s Maybe you need something with caps that can only be unscrewed with a monkey wrench and leave the turrets alone.

As to your example, I only tote one on a sling about 4 months of the year between deer and squirrel hunting, but have never had a issue. Neither has anyone I know who has one. That mountain your railing against is a mole hill.

Could it happen, sure, but given that we are dealing with leupold the scope could fail almost as easily. If I had a rifle that I just had to depend on day in and day out through the year it would probably not be a leupold. I would argue that a bullet proof scope is going to help you a lot more than a bullet proof turret on a leupold. For the four months a year when I am trying but failing to treat my gear with respect a CDS works pretty well.


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The only rifles I've seen stay in line, year in and year out, carry fixed power Leupolds. Interestingly enough, most of them are Rugers. These aren't rifles that have the turrets twisted, though.

I agree with you that if you're relying on scope you'd be adjusting on, a Leupold likely wouldn't be a first choice, unless it was a Mark 4 fixed power. Though I am liking my Mark 6 3-18 thus far. We'll see how it lasts.

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And no, I don't think I'm making mountains out of mole hills. I had two CDS scopes, with zero stop. Both adjusted themselves on multiple occasions. It was generally only a few clicks, but several MOA a time or two. Completely unacceptable, especially when there are better designs out there, for the same price, with the only detraction being a bit of added turret height.

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Originally Posted by prairie_goat
The only rifles I've seen stay in line, year in and year out, carry fixed power Leupolds. Interestingly enough, most of them are Rugers. These aren't rifles that have the turrets twisted, though.

I agree with you that if you're relying on scope you'd be adjusting on, a Leupold likely wouldn't be a first choice, unless it was a Mark 4 fixed power. Though I am liking my Mark 6 3-18 thus far. We'll see how it lasts.


I am going to try a couple of the NXS 42mm compacts this week if there are any in stock at sport optics. It is not a blessing to have one of the biggest internet retailers of high end glass right down the road. I have too many scopes...but I guess that means I have too many guns, and I will never admit to that. But it is not like I have a bunch of scopes sitting in the safe unmounted.

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I don't even want to think about how much money I would spend if I had something like sport optics nearby!

I'd like to try one of those 42mm Nightforce scopes one of these days.

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My 3.5-10 Leupolds with CDS have not turned unless I wanted them to. Work great for me. No issues with M1s either but I tend to check that both are where I left them. This stuff is not hard.

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Nice to see all the pros and cons here. I just put a scope with CDS on my .243�guess I'm gonna go find out for myself!


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Originally Posted by prairie_goat
And no, I don't think I'm making mountains out of mole hills. I had two CDS scopes, with zero stop. Both adjusted themselves on multiple occasions. It was generally only a few clicks, but several MOA a time or two. Completely unacceptable, especially when there are better designs out there, for the same price, with the only detraction being a bit of added turret height.


Agree completely. I've had a CDS adjust itself 180 degrees on an elk hunt. It has gone away.
I now have several Weaver Super Slam scopes and they have a great turret design, lift up to turn and push down to lock. Simple, dependable, and effective. Low profile, too. They are on my two go-to rifles and are performing well.
IMHO these are what a turret should be.

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BTT...

zero stop mod for those with CDS dials...

CDS zero stop --HOW TO


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Originally Posted by WYcoyote
Originally Posted by prairie_goat
And no, I don't think I'm making mountains out of mole hills. I had two CDS scopes, with zero stop. Both adjusted themselves on multiple occasions. It was generally only a few clicks, but several MOA a time or two. Completely unacceptable, especially when there are better designs out there, for the same price, with the only detraction being a bit of added turret height.


Agree completely. I've had a CDS adjust itself 180 degrees on an elk hunt. It has gone away.
I now have several Weaver Super Slam scopes and they have a great turret design, lift up to turn and push down to lock. Simple, dependable, and effective. Low profile, too. They are on my two go-to rifles and are performing well.
IMHO these are what a turret should be.


I do like the dial on the SSs but I had one of three have the POI wander about 2 MOA over about 15 MOA of dialing. The SS dials are very like the zeiss victory

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by houston
I can not believe they opted a turret without a cap? WTH~
I may have to develop one in the shop!


Caps aren't necessary. Resistance is.



Travis


There's quite a bit of resistance on the turrets on the Vortex Viper 6-24 PST. Yet I accidentally spun it up to about 600 yds from zero simply pulling the rifle across the carpeting in the back of the station wagon. I would hate to think how many times the turret would get spun during 20 miles on horse back or a day of busting brush.

Yes, it has zero stops. Zero is easy to return to. If you happen to think to check after baling off the horse to shoot a six by six bull

I was putting the rifle together for a buddy. The scope was mounted on a MK V in 340. He became painfully aware of the problem during the first year elk hunting with the rifle/scope combo.

The Mk V was wearing a different scope sans turrets for this year's elk season.

I'll take my turrets under a lid, thanks.


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