Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing 1)Douglas rifle barrels.. Do we like them ? 2 Cut vs. Button

Gale Mcmillan did say that and I believe his brother was out of the barrel business by then.
Gale is by no means the only gunsmith to hold Douglas in low esteem. Google Douglas barrels and you will find all sorts of negative crap.

Why are the following points so hard to understand?
A. Douglas barrels are not widely used in competitive shooting because they are not as good as some of the other makes.
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Just what competiton are you referencing? It's true that Douglas is not used by many benchrest shooters but in a lot of other disciplines they have ruled for years. In scheutzen competion they have been 'king' for many years. Those shooters are just a serious about winning as benchrest shooters.

No offense was taken on my part. Lest my postings be misinterpreted let me say that I have no problem whatsoever if a person wants to use another brand barrel. I tell my customers that I'll use any barrel they choose but if I were building the rifle for my own use I would use a Douglas simply because I know they are the equal of any barrel. Price has nothing to do with it. If another person has more confidence in Broughton barrels then that's what they should use but to make a statement that barrel 'A' is not as good as barrel 'B' is not a valid position. In fact, barrel 'A' from Douglas may not be as good as barrel 'B' from Douglas. Nobody knows why this is so but it is a fact. If it were not so then Tony Boyer (who spares no expense in shooting) would not pay Dwight Scott (one of the premier gunsmiths in benchrest) to chamber 22 Shilen barrels and then only keep 2-3 of them. He would keep 20 of them, would he not? Shilen has been mentioned here as one of the good barrels used by benchrest shooters.

Agreed...

If it makes you feel better knowing your barrel was hand cut by Peruvian Monks while chanting gregorian hymns then good luck to you.

The original question was whether Douglas made good hunting barrels. This from a New York Still Hunter. Do you actually think he is gonna measure his load development groups to the nearest 0.0001" ????

BenchRest Competition is a great sport but has very little to do with actual hunting. National Highpower is a much closer related sport and there, Douglas Barrels are quite popular....

That is a pretty bold statement about the art of barrel making--10 years ago would you have laughed at the thought of Tim's 5C product? Scopes are and always be a weak point.

Understood as I should have known you were using the term in the abstract my error----one thing that has not been in this discussion is that the majority of folks who are reading this are not really capable of fully evaluating a load that is shot out of any barrel at long range esp (relative term I know) lets say 300yds because the wind and the shooters ability to read it will make the difference in knowing if a barrel is a hummer or a tire iron. Many times I have seen people who do not know how to read the conditions and make poor choices in when to pull the trigger and then read the corresponding result on the target as �what a POS barrel or load�. I am talking about friends who just want the factory Remmy to shoot little holes. I have taken the same rifle using the same loads explain how to use the wind drift chart and much of the time will cut the group size considerably. In the wind if you have a prevailing condition at 7oclock the bullet will strike low and a little to the right of center but many do not fully understand this dynamic and how it works. Should you want to properly evaluate the new barrel you had better understand this. It is a given that many other variables besides the above are involved but this is one of the most overlooked.

When I am evaluating loads (I use the 600yd range for the first evaluation) it must be in at least a 5mph wind preferably 10 to 15 (blows the sky screens around a little) so as to completely understand how the bullet will perform in actual conditions. It does not matter weather you are shooting at the target of record or a trophy deer you still have to get the bullet to the intended target. I have been shooting 1k yards at the ranch off and on for over 30 years but as a result of competition and the instruction of many people have improved my shooting skills many fold.

If you cannot properly evaluate the product you are buying then does it even make sense to spend the $500.00 or so dollars to install a premium barrel? Your money your choice.

The LV 100 5-shot group record,goes back to '73.

I think today were are blessed with exceptional componetry,across the board. Barrels and bullets fall squarely within that statement.

As a rule,you'll never meet someone who's a better shot than they THINK they are.........................(grin)

Not necessarily, depending on who's building your rifle. I know that Mickey and Melvin will both satisfy your accuracy expectations if using Douglas barrels at no additional cost to the purchaser. There is no risk to eliminate. That is the sole reason I use Douglas barrels when dealing with Mickey. He takes the risk, not me. I'd be foolish to use any other barrel when dealing with Mickey.

Uh........................................ Not really. Tim got the concept from Boots Obermeyer, who has been doing it since before Tim even dreamed about getting in the business. Granted, Tim buttons his barrels (as opposed to Boots cutting his), but even that concept is not new.

Mickey,

I remember reading about that before. It doesn't change the fact that the cost of replacing a barrel is still borne by someone. There aren't a whole lot of smiths that would do what you did, which probably explains why you have such a stellar reputation and have an easy time pushing Douglas barrels.

By guaranteeing the work to that extent, you assume the risk that would otherwise be shouldered by the consumer.

(Please tell me that didn't just push my project to the back of the line <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Kind of like saying Lockheed got the idea of the F-22A from the Wright Brothers. Go get back behind the high fence as the deer you have tied up is ready to be shot! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

There is very little "new" in the way of barrels,be it canted or radiused rifling profiles,or polygonal.

Boots ain't to be slighted............................

Why don't you call Tim and ask him where he got the idea. Buttoning as oposed to cutting is a LONG ways from your analogy. Of course, comprehension ain't your long suit.

Please keep up the cracks about high fence hunting. Coming from a fat Texan who hunts over a feeder, that is friggin hilarious, especially since there isn't a SINGLE high fence operation in all of California.

Besides, he aint tied up, he was kneecapped as a fawn so that I could keep an eye on him.

jfsag, someone please post up the winners of the top-end BR matches for, say, the last 5 years, and their rigs... barrels, actions, builders, scopes.... and put in there the lengths of the barrels and overall weights of those things, too.

Just curious...

Thats a piss poor analogy.
Tim North, the president of Broughton barrels even says the the 5c groove profile is simular to the one obermeyer has used for years.
http://www.6mmbr.com/BroughtonProfile.html


I am not knocking Broughton barrels in any way as I actually have a Broughton being chambered in .300 Win mag as we speek.

I have 4 of them including the one on my 338 Lapua AI 1k gun my 338 Lapua AI hunting rifle a 6x284 and a 6.5x284and I am well aware of what you cut and pasted. I have talked to Tim about this subject before and the differences are there. Your vast and very extensive knowledge base may just not be aware of them.

Your splitting hairs. In general the concept and purpose for both is the same. Maybe a better term would be to say 5C is a refinment of 5R.

I'm willing to bet my SUCKS lefty with the 2x7 Nikon and the new Douglas factory contour barrel is gonna blast 168 TSX's right thru the next Whitetail I put the crosshairs on...

If the Bear Gods are smiling...it will happen to a good bear before that...

Can't wait to get to it.....

Well coming from a Kommie Kalifornian who hunts high fence that is some statement. I do not hunt over feeders even though we do have them and something else you are totally clueless about is Wildlife Management and what is required to help the anmials ( I have not shot any Whitetail but a cull for 5 years lots of pigs and other vermin I do not even shoot Turkey any more). I have spent more time with the Texas DPW Biologist, Game Wardens, US Department of the Interior Fish and Wildlife Service Biologists and Endangered Species Coordinator than you have pasting money to your body for the High Fence Ranch Owners to pillage. The difference between you hunting and when I hunt it is I hunt whereas you just go to a high fence area to �get your monies worth� then pay someone else to haul and process your animal only because the law requires otherwise, you would just cut off the horns and let it lay <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. Now I feel that was a pretty accurate assessment of your conservation activities. When you walk up to a guide with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />money <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> strapped all over you ride to the �stand� behind the high fence and they let the animal out of the cage you get all excited don�t you�tell the truth you do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You may have more money to spend on your high fence hunting than I do but in the end I have contributed more to the enhancement of habitat and the indigenous wildlife species in our area than all of your money going into the High Fence Ranch Owner who only purchases the best for you to shoot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Question----HAVE YOU OR HAVE YOU NOT EVER HUNTED IN ANY AREA WHERE A FENCE PREVENTED THE GAME FROM MOVING FREELY FROM ONE AREA TO ANOTHER--HAVE YOU EVER HUNTED HIGH FENCE??? You do know that B&C will not let you list your pen shot anmials with their Club.

"I'm willing to bet my SUCKS lefty with the 2x7 Nikon and the new Douglas factory contour barrel is gonna blast 168 TSX's right thru the next Whitetail I put the crosshairs on..."
So would one off the shelf from Walmart......

Cas,
I'll bet you a kajillion million bucks (and a 10' black bear rug AND the Cullinan diamond, and, and,...... ) that this dude ain't DFC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

badger

Yep--and you also get to live in a hunters dream!