|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
|
OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
The sad reality of our healthcare system is that it does NOT operate under a free market principles, hospitals don't list the prices they will charge. I could not agree more. Absolutely.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
It will continue to be this way unless .gov gets out of the medical business.
There is NO way I"d be in a business where .gov says... look, since its me paying, I'll only pay you 10% or whatever of what you charge.
Doesn't take a fool in the business to realize he is going to have to charge a hell of a lot, since its going to be cut drastically, to then be able to pay for what the real bill is.
I don't enjoy the high costs either... but you have to realize, medical is just like paying the fire department, whether they have a fire or not, they have to be there 24/7. And there is no way around that unless you don't want the "coverage"
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
|
OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
It will continue to be this way unless .gov gets out of the medical business.
There is NO way I"d be in a business where .gov says... look, since its me paying, I'll only pay you 10% or whatever of what you charge.
Doesn't take a fool in the business to realize he is going to have to charge a hell of a lot, since its going to be cut drastically, to then be able to pay for what the real bill is.
I don't enjoy the high costs either... but you have to realize, medical is just like paying the fire department, whether they have a fire or not, they have to be there 24/7. And there is no way around that unless you don't want the "coverage"
The government definitely needs to get out of it because they are totally incompetent and even when they manage to get something done they are the most inefficient way of accomplishing that thing that anybody could imagine. That said, you have perfect examples right here of the mindset that has allowed the costs to escalate the way they have. You have people who swallow the bullshit about costs, hook, line and sinker. Then you have the others about "how much is your life worth?". When you go there you'll accept huge monetary charges and that is one of the big things that has ruined our healthcare system. It's another aspect of the low information voter.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 279
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 279 |
"Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers." -------------------------------------------------------------
The problem here was not ObamaCare. i.e the Affordable Care Act, he had p[rivate insurancde company coverage. It wasn't even Medicare or Medicaid. The problem was private insurance companies demand a discounted price or they will approve the provider (hospital, clinic or MD)for reimbursement from the plan. These are the same companies who will be providing care under the Affordable Care Act. Argue if you will that the care is not affordable But it was and will continue to be provided/paid for by private insuranace companies.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,742
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,742 |
For the love of God, give the viewers a warning. ![eek eek](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/eek.gif)
Jed York does not own the 49ers; Russell Wilson does.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690 |
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers? lost a lot of appendages.....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,919 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,919 Likes: 10 |
I'm rather disappointed. Where are the "If you don't want to pay it, no one is making you go," "If you don't like it, start your own hospital," "What's wrong with charging as much as you can?" responses. The Campfire is definitely slipping.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,698 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,698 Likes: 23 |
Anti-venom costs have gone insane. There are many more stories about this same type of cost related with anti-venom for snakebites now.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
I'm rather disappointed. Where are the "If you don't want to pay it, no one is making you go," "If you don't like it, start your own hospital," "What's wrong with charging as much as you can?" responses. The Campfire is definitely slipping. Ever since the 22 ammo shortage...
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
So, thinking of alternatives . . . what did our forefathers do back in the 19th Century when they were bit by Copperheads or Rattlers? lost a lot of appendages..... this....if your curious just look at Africa or Asia....lot of people missing lower legs due to snake bite.....hands aswell due to harvesting veggies in snake infested fields....we used to have a fair number die but due to outstanding and quick medical treatment of the 7,000 plus bites a year maybe 5 are fatal.....used to be alot higher, bites from northern Pacifics, mohave greens and coral snakes were mostly fatal before ventilators.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
Anti-venom costs have gone insane. There are many more stories about this same type of cost related with anti-venom for snakebites now.
thats cause we now actually have antivenin thats worth a chit....the old cheap Wyeth also came with a laundry list of side effects in alot of cases the antivenin was more dangerous than the original bite because allergies to it were common.....the new CroFab is more expensive but it also works better and has much reduced side effects, allergies to it are pretty uncommon....
Last edited by rattler; 01/28/14.
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,491
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,491 |
I worked in or with .gov all of my employed life. Trust me, you can't fathom the width and depth or density of .gov stupidity and total conviction that only they can tell time on a digital clock. IF they had common sense, or were allowed to exercise any degree of it, their massive volumes of detailed employee work rule books wouldn't be required. NOTHING is too screwed up or be as expensive or happen so slowly it can't be made worse when .gov "fixes" anything.
Letting politicians and their bureaurcrat unionized drones run our health insurance has been, is and will remain a costly disaster for the public but you can safely bet your home and bank account that they WILL take very good care of themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,491
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,491 |
I worked in or with .gov all of my employed life. Trust me, you can't fathom the width and depth or density of .gov stupidity and total conviction that only they can tell time on a digital clock. IF they had common sense, or were allowed to exercise any degree of it, their massive volumes of detailed employee work rule books wouldn't be required. NOTHING is too screwed up or be as expensive or happen so slowly it can't be made worse when .gov "fixes" anything.
Letting politicians and their bureaurcrat unionized drones run our health insurance has been, is and will remain a costly disaster for the public but you can safely bet your home and bank account that they WILL take very good care of themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,268
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,268 |
If you can't afford it don't use the service. He was more than welcome to not go and stay home.
Otto is my co-pilot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,919 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,919 Likes: 10 |
Not to mention the cost of filing everything in duplicate.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,919 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,919 Likes: 10 |
If you can't afford it don't use the service. He was more than welcome to not go and stay home. Finally! My faith is somewhat restored.
Last edited by 5sdad; 01/28/14.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,820 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,820 Likes: 1 |
"Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers." -------------------------------------------------------------
The problem here was not ObamaCare. i.e the Affordable Care Act, he had p[rivate insurancde company coverage. It wasn't even Medicare or Medicaid. The problem was private insurance companies demand a discounted price or they will approve the provider (hospital, clinic or MD)for reimbursement from the plan. These are the same companies who will be providing care under the Affordable Care Act. Argue if you will that the care is not affordable But it was and will continue to be provided/paid for by private insuranace companies. If you think insurance companies get a discount, you ought to see what a discount Medicare/Medicaid get. It's way bigger and is a problem that is also made up on private patients. Income redistribution at work.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,005 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,005 Likes: 4 |
The biggest problem with what healthcare charges is most people don't have a clue what they are being charged for. They have no idea how many people are behind the scenes that they never see.
Want to talk cost of drugs. Fine. Our inpatient pharmacy operates 24/7. To cover every shift, every day requires a lot of pharmacists and technicians. To have the drugs on the shelves when you need them requires several people who only work supply. Unfortunately, all those people need management and their support. Oh yeah, those drugs have to be in stock in sufficient amounts. It's not a small amount in inventory that is there just in case that never gets used, but it has to be there just the same. How much mark up has to be made just to break even? It's not a little.
Now, that pharmacy has bills whether we have patients or not. Equipment, cleaning staff, utilities. It's not free. Same goes for every department in the hospital. You may see one nurse, but there are many people behind her that are required for her to give you treatment. The hospital overall has to have admin and HR plus all the costs of providing them a place to work. All those people have to be there whether we see one patient or 100. Doctors? They certainly don't come for free and you may encounter several along the way.
If your hospital bill had a breakdown of everything you were paying for you would never finish reading it. You see three people while you're in but don't see the other 50 that are there making sure you can be taken care of. You certainly don't see all the millions of dollars worth of equipment that is there just so you can be taken care of.
Then factor in all the people we have to take care of that we know we won't cover expenses. How many businesses are required to sell products below cost or just give them away?
Of course, some of you just want to bitch and don't really want to know what's going on, so bitch away.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
If you can't afford it don't use the service. He was more than welcome to not go and stay home. I think the point Ethan was making had to do with market distortions in the price of medical care resulting from government interference at multiple levels, including government's long term partnership with the insurance companies. In other words, what we're seeing are not natural market prices for these services, but a gross distortion of them whereby absurd profits are being made that wouldn't be supported by anything like a free market in medical care.
|
|
|
|
89 members (BALLISTIK, 5sdad, Akhutr, Amos63, auk1124, 14 invisible),
1,454
guests, and
878
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,207
Posts18,503,871
Members73,994
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|