Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Barnes bullets---GRRRRGH

I've NEVER been able to get Barnes bullets to shoot consistently. Yesterday I bought another box of 338 185g TSX bullets to check pressures with the Pressure Trace unit I recently acquired. I've never gotten better than 2" groups with them, usually well over that, but thought I'd give them one more try and check pressures at the same time.

This lot of bullets had an ogive .015" different from the bullets several boxes of bullets out of one lot that I had tried before and tried to develop loads. Their inconsistency, at least for me, continues. On the plus side I checked about half the box for consistency and the greatest disparity I found was about .004" difference in ogives which is a lot better than some other premium brands. Not sure why I'm wasting my time with Barnes. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing and hoping to get different results?

You guys that use them with success are obviously doing something different. What is it?

I find myself frequently starting over with Barnes. Getting ready to go on a July hunt and find out Barnes no longer makes the .375 caliber 250 gr. X but now have a 235 gr. Also just switched over from VLS to Triple Shocks for the .284. I suspect the VLS will no longer be available in the not too distant future.

Look on the bright side, it's fun to work up loads and it gives you a reason to go shooting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm with you...I have Never worked up better than 2" groups
with barnes.
I think it's the twist/bullet lenght combo that makes them shoot or not.
All my rifles must be the nots.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Try this:

1. Clean ALL previous copper fouling out of the barrel: I scrub it till the patches come out clean. JB Bore Paste helps.

2. Shoot enough to re-foul with the TSX copper. If using Chrono you can tell when the velocity get consistent.

3. Dont' shoot any other bullets through your barrel until you find the TSX load you like.

4. If you can reach the lands, ty em .030 to .070 off the lands.

5. Use the TSX bullet weight that is closest to what you already know will shoot in you gun with another brand.

6. That's about all the help I can give but will encourage you to keep trying....the TSX shoots very well in ALMOST every gun I've tried it in (still having some issues in a .222 & 220 Swift with 53 grain TSX).

Good luck.

bobski
Funny I look to you for advice so i will try to help if can. I have found with the tsx the starting from the clean barrel is everything.Playing with seating depths i have found .40 off the lands seem to work the best for me.Like most everything posted above is good advice..One more thing i have found is the faster you push them the smaller the group.I have never shot a grouping that big with any Barnes bullets so I'm kinda puzzled.Try PMing Bart185.He seems to play with the tsx quite a bit.

Perhaps it's just the way I load, but I have found powders on the faster end of the spectrum to produce better results with Barnes bullets.

They also seem to be abnormally sensitive to runout.

The TSX's have not been especially finicky about fouling in my barrels. I can shoot them after other types with no ill effects.

Have you thought that maybe the twist in your 338 caliber isn't appropriate for 185gr bullets? Thats an awfully light bullet for the caliber and I would bet that there's a lot of 33 caliber rifles that might not like them.
I've had a number of rifles that shot Barnes bullets into less than 1" groups, including 1 at 300yds......................DJ

Gee thanks fellas, I was venting and really didn't think I'd get that many helpful thoughts. I've been fighting Barnes for over 10 years!!

I've tried the clean barrel bit and the fouled barrel bit and neither have ever helped but if it's been a help to one person, it could provide my answer. I'll try it again. I also hold my runout to .002" or under on all test loads so that isn't an issue. I've even tried a bit more bullet grip since the TSX's seem to not hold as firmly with a .002" grip. Neither seemed to have much positive effect other than the tighter grip holding the concentricity a bit better.

I've also considered the twist rate and that, plus the velocity may be my problem, but I've shot them through several configurations of 338's all the way up to 3300 fps and it didn't seem to matter. This barrel is a 22" 1:10 but in other cartridges I've used a 1:11" gain twist and a 1:12" and it didn't help.

I've also tried varying distances off the lands as Barnes recommends but I've even kissed the lands and also gone "into" the lands about .010" with little effect except hard bolt lifts. Occasionally I get two in one hole and one way out. The particular barrel I'm working with checking pressures seems to like the bullets a bit further out than I do normally but the Barnes seemed to work best around .030", occasionally a few thou � from that like .020" and .040". Some groups with the longer jumps were 6"!! I'm reasonably sure I'm doing something wrong and maybe some of your thoughts will help.

I just recently checked pressures and accuracy with 180g Noslers @ .020" off the lands and got groups in the 6's with H4350. This rifle is a 338WSM that is just a tad slower than a 338 Win Mag. Those .6" groups were fired near 3200fps. Put the Barnes in there and the groups go all to hell at similar velocity.

The two biggies to me right now are the speed (my gunsmith keeps telling me to push faster,) and the burn rate of the powder. I tend to load with the propellants on the slower end of the spectrum. After reading some of these great suggestions I've loaded up a ladder with Big Game at .030" off the lands all the way up to 73g which is pretty potent and I'll be checking the pressures closely. I think that powder is fast enough though I have tried RL15 and Varget which are faster and it didn't help, but then I wasn't pushing them to the edge either. As Eremicus on this board will tell you, at the range I'm called "Maximum Bob" and guys don't usually sit at the benches adjacent to me, so it's somewhat ironic to get the suggestions of pushing them faster!!

Thanks. I'll know more tomorrow.

Bobski-that is the one bullet from the TX line that I am boycotting from now till the end of time.

It is a shoot on Monday but not on Tuesday bullet 4 sure.

I've tried to no end to make that 185 shoot in my 338 wsm and in my 338/06.

But it just about drives me to drink.

DJ wondered about the twist and it is a good question but most all 33's are 10 twists. And every one of them from 338/06 to the 338 wsm to the 340 I've worked with will flat out shoot the 180 NBT so I dare say it is not twist related.

Personally Bob I say give up on it, that is what I finally did after going thru about 4 boxes or so of them.

Mark D

If the 180gr Noslers were the new Accubonds and they were shooting into the .6's I think I'd just forget about the barnes and call it good. Maybe the 180gr 338 TSX just sucks.
If the Noslers were Ballistic tips I can see why your frustrated. I shot a deer with a 33cal ballistic tip at about warp 3 and the process was ugly. The Accubonds weren't available then...................DJ

Bobski,

Have heard all the stories of loading with Barnes X. Here is Australia the 300gr .375 TSX is $90 for a box of 50 & that is the discounted price!!! I got some of the old Barnes X 300gr at a close out price & got 2 boxes.

Had my gunsmith to work out some loads for me in a 375 RUM on a rechambered M70 Stainless formerly a 375H&H. Here are the groups. You need to be lucky with a Barnes X. But this rifle is blessed with an excellent barrel. Very easy to clean & shoots anything really well.

The objective was to get the 300gr X & the 350gr Woodleigh to shoot to the same point of impact at 100yards. It seems AR2209/H4350 is the powder for it.

Regards
JohnT

dj-I've not test drove the 180 Accu yet in the OKH but I am gonna. The 180 NBT shoots like a varminter and it runs them at 3K.

Sort of an 06 on steriods and or a 300 WSM except with the ability to go to the heavy boys (250 Noz at 2600) if I like.

The 200 Accu shoots well, but not super. I hope to give the 180 Accu's a run in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for the reminder.

Mark D

Mark,
I definitely agree with you. I'm way ahead of you on the boxes of Barnes I've tried though, something like 10 or 12, and I've had the same kind of "luck" with the 225 TSX's. It just kills me that others, like some of the guys in this thread, can have such good luck with them and I can't make them shoot. If you get curious about pressures on your wizzum give a shout. I'm pretty well ringing them out right now with the Pressure Trace.

DJ,
The AB's are basically the same BC as the BT's and I got them before the AB's came out. I thought I might consider them for mule deer should I decide to put in, but I mainly got them to experiment as I'm basically an elk hunter and I like SD for them. I'm pretty well set for most anything in 338 except light game.

IMHO,the .338" 210X is THE one.........................

PLEASE don't make me try them! I've spent too much on Barnes already with no success. Plus I've not had great luck with 210 Noslers either!

Just relating what's worked best for me.

The 210's,IMHO,boast the most inherent attributes,both in theory and application.

Nosler's ain't my gig......................

bobski, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I have fooled with Barnes bullets a lot over the years and esp with the TSX. They are ok and will shoot but are not, and never have been, as accurate as some other bullets in any of my rifles that I have tried them in.

BCR

1

Bobski-thanks for the offer, I am more than curious as to the pressures on "Fat Bastard", which is my 338 WSM.

On the 210 TSX, it shoots in about one tiny hole in my 340 but can't quite get it to perk in the OKH and or in "Fat".

There is just not enough case room to put it and the amount of powder in it that I want. It keeps wanting to back itself out.

I'll get with you though for sure.

If you don't mind PM me your phone #.

Gotta run, daylight is burning and I've many miles to run today.

Mark D

Done. I DID have good luck with the 210 Noslers in this one, the first time I've had any luck with them in any of about a dozen barrels. Mostly they were marginal at about 1.2" groups in others. They came in under MOA near 2900 fps in this one. Working on 185 TSX's and 225 AB's today. Gone shooting!!