Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Ladder test, How, why?

Folks who have no idea how to analyze a ladder are usually the same ones who think they are the stupidest method evah...

Royce, sweet spots are so obvious once you learn the Audette method. There have been variations on that method and evidently we now call it the ladder test.

Regardless all you are looking for when shooting 20 - 5 shot groups in increasing powder charges, are a place where you get the snug group. BUT if you don't pay attention, one group can be a liar. I went years fighting that...

Then read once I got involved in highpower shooting how to run Creighton Audettes theory. It worked so good and for so many that have used it, that you can't ignore the theory.

Why wouldn't one like something that even if you vary the charge a bit, which can be the same as varying temps too.... still impacts inside the overall group?

RE your above question, yes it probably will show the same, BUT it could vary IMHO, due to body size, how the gun is held etc..... just like not everyone can use the same zero on a scoped gun.... look into sniper training RE that... I know my best buddy and I are off windage wise 3/4 moa... repeatably.....

But I also suspect that if you get 3 folks they won't be off much.. IE ones core spot might be 50-52 , the next 50-52, the next 49.6 to 51.4, the next 50.4 to 52.6

The very LAST thing, and I tried it that way, was to strive for the velocity I wanted, and shoot over a chrono seeking that nirvana of the lowest ES and SD. I've been SO disappointed by that method, that I can honestly say that teh BEST groups I"ve had have almost NEVER been teh lowest ES and SD.

But before someone reads that wrong, my best groups also have good ES and SD.

But I've only really put numbers of rounds down range from about 89 through about 04, and generally only about 10,000 or so a year, we avearaged around 20K a year but that was with wife shooting competition also. And we only shot out to 600 mostly but have done a fair amount at 1000, where ES and SD HAVE to be a factor due to vertical impact issues.

Now one can't take Stick lightly, hell he lives in Alaska, that has to say somehting about his brain to start with. And he makes a good living doing it and is able to enjoy the fruits of his labor. One can't argue that the man has knowledge.

I'd simply like to see whats easier or as easy, and as fast to get one on track to the right spot in teh load testing, with the least amount of effort, other than the Audette.

And one ladder, does not answer all questions... though I have a couple of hunting guns where accuracy doesn't matter nearly as much as competition guns, that I"ve run a single ladder, taken the center of the best, loaded a couple of 5 shot groups, never shot a group above about .75 moa and then loaded that and never looked back. And each time I tested it , was holding same accuracy. Which was generally closer to .5 moa most times.

rost
Thanks for the time thought and experience that went into your post. With your experience, I don't think you are someone to be taken lightly, either. Even when I was shooting a lot (for me), I didn't shoot a fraction of what you shoot.
I tend to be skeptical of much of what I read on here, but after reading your post I believe you know what you are talking about.

'3rd,

Weren't my intent to" make" anyone appear any dumber than they are...if only because they are doing just fine solo,on that "quest". Laffin'!

I'm simply afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and for some reason,I do not feel compelled to apologize for it,so as to salve Window Lickers hurt feelers.

Hint.

Please find me mistaken,anywhere or upon anything. I'll save you some time,as it ain't happenin'.

Hint.










'lia,

I do enjoy the notion that numbers,paper and ladders is now "Tricky".

THAT is [bleep] funny!











'eth,

Can only lead 'em to water,cain't make 'em drink.

Nor would I...if I could,because this is sooooooooo much funnier.

Hint.










Royce,

Nope...which only adds to the [bleep] humor.(grin)

It'd be a riot to show up with a new rifle/mounts/glass and a host of quality componetry and let the Ladder Gang do all their "Tricky" things that only the esteemed can "understand" and gun results in the flesh. Poor dumb [bleep] would be grasping at straws and making excuses in no time flat.(grin) Hint.

I very much enjoy when these most simplistic of things get cajoled into "Rocket Science"...which it sure as [bleep] ain't.

Hilarious!










'495,

Fascinating that you feel compelled to illuminate the fact,that you are an incredibly slow "learner". Like it weren't obvious?!? Funny schit!

Again...Nirvana is a compilation of all facets working in conjunction. I'll feign my "surprise",that it took you decades to cypher that constant and glaring obvious. You'da' thunked that someone by now,woulda mentioned the fact,that there are a multitude of time tested loads that perform exceptionally in a myriad of rifles,with but modest COAL nudges geared to individual throat particulars. I know,I know...that FACT steals alotta thunder from The Smoke & Ladder Ploy. Hint.

I reckon I should roll tape and make a few more videos for you Window Lickers,if only to getcha' to the water...so you won't drink it and teach me yet another "lesson". Laffin'!

EPIC hilarity!

Hint.

'oxer, When you taking me fishing? Hint.

Re-hint +P.

No need for videos. Just print in english what your better solution is or shut the [bleep] up. Pretty simple there bud.

But in the meantime what I'm trying to get out of my ebonics dicktionary is take whatever the hell I want for powder and primer and just move the bullet in and out instead of the charge up and down? That is a ladder in and of its own.

Sure things work in conjuction, but you find a starting point that gives a decent start, and then tweak from there. I find no post that ever said different, though there may have been one.

FWIW I've no feelings for you to hurt either, simply a person that has a method thats worked for a LONG time, quickly and easily, and offering you the chance to tell us how to do it better, in language we can understand.

Or do I need to find another window to lick?

Funny, I have a feeling that we'll get more ebonics, may a video showing someone knows how to shoot(thats never been argued here at least for me, no doubt you can shoot, no doubt I can shoot too) and some more window licker quotes.

Come on give us the real thing or quit wasting time.

Your little trollish, sloped foreheaded lardass callin' someone a window-licker is quite ironic

Box,

It's amazing to me that someone with your experience has found no value in the Audette method. It runs contrary to most things I've seen you post, after I sift through all the Deadwood-inspired insults.

I couldn't care any less about which load development process you or anyone else chooses to use, although I do prefer the guys I compete against use something other than Audette's method.

Seems to get me to the prize table early in the ceremony

'neth,

Your casting is coming along nicely and you'll note how I didn't crowd the rock you were standing upon...but simply pointed to where the bottom-feeders lurked.

You're doing well Glasshoppa.(grin)










'495,

Oh my,that's ALOTTA Estrogen,given the current lunar phase. I reckon your titties are sore too? Weren't my intent to horn you up,but you incredibly [bleep] sloooowwwwwwww "learners",is always in a hurry to cram things in your mouths and azzes. Congratulations?!?

I get it,that you's at the mercy of your means,ability and comprehension,none of which is a purty picture. Tough luck there,for certain. Perhaps mention again that you "don't care" as you continue your rather impressive Hissy Fit and mebbe give thought to holding your breath and stomping your feet,so I can do a Ladder Decibel Test. Laffin'!

LONG term Stupidity ain't braggin' rights sweetheart,it's a [bleep] plight and them differences is drastic. If only for conversation. Hint.

Mebbe in another 20 years,you'll attain your first [bleep] clue?!? Nawwwwww...that ain't happenin'. Hint.

Laffin'!

I do get a kick outta you stupid [bleep] first "telling" me schit,then you's asking questions on how to connect the dots that you are unable to.

[bleep] FUNNY schit!











SquatToPee,

Great time for you to Pretend you can whip my ass. Looking forward to your next recounting of all the things you almost did,with all the wares you almost had and from all the places you've almost been. Laffin'!

Just where do you incredibly stupid [bleep] come from?!?

Wow +P+.

Hang a pic of your crossed-eyes and really knock it outta Da' Park with the profundity of your incredible ineptitude,by a trite 1000 words. Lookin' forward to them excuses.

As an aside,just how loud is your Imagination,when you shoot it?!? What are you gonna Pretend about next,or is it yet another "secret"?!?

Laffin'!

As per always,it's funnier than [bleep],when even someone as [bleep] incredibly stupid as you,KNOWS to skirt all things The Rifle and go right to Whining instead. Pretend ain't real,as you oh soooooo eloquently attest,obliviously.

You go girl!










'lia,

If pizzing up a rope is your cup of tea,rest assured I've ZERO intent to keep you from "enjoying" same.

Laffin'!

I'm starting to think TAK ignored my question.



Travis

What experience? A dwarf logger, who lives on an island, and has bought a few guns?

I think TAK is saving that last 100 primers he bought in the late 90's for something "special."



Travis

'flave,

She's cranking her Pretend up,to contend the query.

Laffin'!










SquatToPee,

I'll feign my "surprise" that reality do you no favors and you's hidin' them crossed eyes. Laffin'!

Even less "surprising",that you is goin' wayyyyyyyy 'round ALL things The Rifle and went right to Whining about your exceedingly well founded insecurities,instead.

Congratulations?!?

Laffin'!

You Do Nothing Day Dreaming Dumbfhukkers are a riot.

Bless your heart.

Yes, when you have about 30K primers its easy to misplace one box

I am blessed, and I ain't a dwarf.

30K??? WOW!

Are you saving them for your first rifle???



Travis

yep, and it's gonna be a .22LR.......

Boxer

now that you have called everyone names and said that the ladder is stupid.

Go ahead and enlighten everyone on your long range load development method and show us how well it works!

My bet is it will be "crickets" only except for the insults only as you are clueless.

SquatToPee,

It's your Imagination...Pretend with it however you please,as you are really doing "great".

Laffin'!

You poor poor incredibly stupid [bleep].










'flave,

The closest SquatToPee has ever been to Reloading,is puttin' bottled water in her SuperSoaker...before she ran the "gauntlet" of the escalator,in the Mall which she Ninja's.

Laffin'!

But bet the farm,them windows have done been licked.










smoke',

The only thing she shoots is her mouth and Imagination...though in no particular [bleep] order.

Bless her heart.










'Hunter,

Nawwww...the ladder is farrrrrrrrrrr more [bleep] stupid than you are able to fathom. You ain't been payin' attention. Hint.

You clueless dumbfhukkers are a hoot! 'Tis a shame,that you haven't the IQ to receive enlightenment,though "luckily" you've enough to Whine. Congratulations?!?

Shoot for the starts toots and PLEASE find me "mistaken" and I'll happily take the time to rub your nose in your own [bleep] stupidity.

Hint.

You "hard charging" Flat Landing Do Nothing Dumbfhukks are so incredibly devoid a first [bleep] clue,thatcha' really oughtta give thought to entering yourselves in The Guinness Book. It'd be the first bell you could ring. Hint.

Laffin'!

Wow +P+.

I'm laughing so hard my stomach hurts...



Travis