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I asked Barnes and was told 1800 FPS is the minimum. I tried a few and got decent expansion. I prefer to keep them 2200 or so giving my druthers.
I have tested some with the bigger hollow points and got ad copy expansion out of 357 125 grainers at ~850. 1300 out of 150 grain TSXs and 1600 out of 150 grain Xs in 30-30 loads. The 150 grain Xs in 30-30 probably would have opened slower, but I didn't try any slower. Muzzle loader Barnes bullets will open pretty far down as well. The 120 TTSX at 3,000 ft/sec MV keeps above 2200 out to close to 350 yards, more than enough for my application. P
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On their site a few years back Barnes had Test Tubes cut down the middle to show the disruption, the bullet was the .308 130 TTSX. Even though the 2000 fps impact test bullet was fully opened the path looked like a pencil wound. OTOH the TTSX that impacted at 2300 showed a huge wound channel.
With a non-fragmenting bullet opening fully isn't enough, it has to be going fast enough to throw away and tear tissue from the impacted area. IOW speed kills.
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On their site a few years back Barnes had Test Tubes cut down the middle to show the disruption, the bullet was the .308 130 TTSX. Even though the 2000 fps impact test bullet was fully opened the path looked like a pencil wound. OTOH the TTSX that impacted at 2300 showed a huge wound channel.
With a non-fragmenting bullet opening fully isn't enough, it has to be going fast enough to throw away and tear tissue from the impacted area. IOW speed kills. That's been my experience with them also. Sometimes though, even a lot of impact speed doesn't result in big holes, but usually it does. Not consistent enough for me to use in small calibers for lung shooting anymore.
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I've been unimpressed with TTSXs even at very high impact speed on rib impacts, but they are mean when you connect with bone. The only exception being the tipped MLer version, which is pretty devastating even on soft tissue hits.
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I prefer to keep them at 2000+ even though I've had stellar performance down around 1950. The last 11 deer I've shot have been with TTSX (10) or e-Tips (1). I've only been blue to catch one of them (I tried to catch that one) and all critters have died within 10yards except one little small doe than made it almost 100. Then again, 60 yards of that 100 was skidding face first down the side of a ravine.
I'm a huge fan of Barnes bullets, but I think 1600 on an LRX is BS after seeing them expand at 1950. That's my cutoff.
RLTW
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When I emailed Barnes in regards to .338 185 TTSX they stated that 1800 was the recommendation, but that it actually opened adequately a bit slower than that. I have not hit anything at slower speeds to come to my own conclusion.
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Thanks for all of the replies.
To sum:
Barnes says 1800, but experience says 2,000.
Shoulder shots are better than low behind the shoulder.
Barnes X had problems with expansion and fouling.
TSX and TTSX solved those problems.
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
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Thanks for all of the replies.
To sum:
Barnes says 1800, but experience says 2,000.
Shoulder shots are better than low behind the shoulder.
Barnes X had problems with expansion and fouling.
TSX and TTSX solved those problems.
P You have it about right, IMO. Although I had wonderful expansion with the original X bullets, thought they would often foul up a barrel pretty quickly. It was the desire to use those bullets at high speeds, and my laziness in not wanting to have to scrub barrels, that inspired me to buy the NECO impact plating Molybdenum Disulfide equipment/materials 30 years ago. I still use it on my uberfast stuff and hugh volume shooting varmint rifles like my 222 and 223.
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Used the 168 ttsx this year in a short barrel suppressed .308 winchester. Its running 2550 fps at the muzzle. 9 does and 14 hogs out to 345 yards. Didn't have one not expand and all left good blood trails with rib shots. Its fun to hear the whooop of the bullet at a 50 yards shot! To much fun. I emailed barnes and they told me 1800 fps for the ttsx.
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I've never deer hunted with a 243. I'll be loading the 80 Gr. TTSXs for a BAR 243 this summer. I'm anxious to see how they perform in the hardwood bottoms of Alabama. The does are about 100-120 pounds and a BIG buck will weigh 200 or more.
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Thanks for all of the replies.
To sum:
Barnes says 1800, but experience says 2,000.
Shoulder shots are better than low behind the shoulder.
Barnes X had problems with expansion and fouling.
TSX and TTSX solved those problems. P I'd say that's a fair summation. To be truthful about it, as much as I like them, I wouldn't be real thrilled with using them past 400. I've never needed to shoot a deer that far away in fifty odd years, so, it's probably moot anyway. I have set up a couple times to do one at longer, but wouldn't you know it a tasty looking deer offered itself up for the table much, much closer. The only rifle I have seen fouling issues with was a Parker-Hale 30-06 that had a nice smooth shiny looking bore. It did not foul with guilding metal. Three shots with a TSX or TTSX and accuracy would already be headed south. Dyna Bore Coat solved that rifle. Never had an issue with original Xs fouling or expanding in .243, .257 or .308 calibers. Unlike MD, I don't measure off how far each deer went after it was hit. My suspicions are that it wouldn't come out much different for me. Of the three deer I killed last November, two, made it about 100 feet. Both with their heart loose in the chest and well shredded lungs (but not red soup). Both killed with a .223 and 53 grain TSXs. The third was killed with a .270 and 110 grain TTSX. That deer's heart was just shredded and the lungs were well shredded. That one made it about 70 yards. Sometimes a deer hit like that drops into it's shadow. Sometimes, they run a little. Never saw one make it past about 80 yards. When you drop blood pressure to zero instantly without destroying running gear, it seems to me the variable in how far the deer runs is the deer, not the bullet. I have seen deer with lungs made into red soup and the heart either destroyed or loose in the chest manage that last fifty yards or so and give no indication whatsoever of being hit until they just pile up. I have seen a deer shot with a 30-30 and the ubiquitous Core-Lokt where it made a comparatively smallish hole through the heart die so fast I thought it was hit in the head. When you can have such diametrically different responses to being shot with more or less comparably fatal bullet placement and equivalent physical damage ie: instant zero BP, I can see no way to argue that the deer is not a bigger variable than the bullet.
Last edited by MILES58; 03/07/14.
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Heart to stop, bone to drop.....
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greentimber.... Thanks for the input on the LRX. You are the first person that I've heard of testing their ability to expand. General consensous says....keep it to 2000 fps and you will be golden.
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